Best Place To Have Stator Rewound?

Motor Head wrote:

Whats a way to see full DCv output on the stock R/R on his model? In case he is still playing with stator #????

What we really want to know is how many amps can it produce (after rectification) at 14.5v.

The way I check this is to use an active load. You connect the stator to the load, it gets rectified and then a regulator increases the load to keep the voltage at a steady 14.5v (adjustable to whatever voltage you want). Then measure the current as you rev the bike. Since the voltage will stay the same (14.5) you can make a graph of amps versus RPM.

Yes I meant AMPS at what voltage for output, that is why I'm trying to get him to use a AMP meter of some kind that he can source and use.
That load test looks good. Do you have something more simple, loading with a rated Amp electric motor/ or Bulb that would supply the extra load to find out the current/ Volts output? So he or anyone else can rig up something simple? Me I have a load tester/ Meters etc. But no scope currently, used them a bit though and they are really nice.
My 550 book says Stator AC should be "About" 75V AC @4000rpm, also Cold Stator coil resistance should be.32-.48 OHMs. So if he is getting the 63 or whatever out of his Fifty, then that may be low, if his Tach/ DVOM is correct. But he really needs to find the Current in AMPs and if the ripple is excessive, but without having a scope. I have a tester that will let you know if the ripple is excessive, but won't give you a figure. I know most of the testers that are out there now will do it all, Battery test/Starter cranking Amps/ Load & No Load output amps/ & a AC ripple graph, all at the same time. He could with the bike all back together take it to NAPA as they have 1 of these testers and offer a "Free" check. That way he could find out his AMPs and Ripple etc without dumping more $.
I would probably take along a extra head light bulb that could be Jumper leaded to the battery for extra load during that part of the test.

The problem with just using an ammeter is you don't know if the regulator is causing the low voltage or the lack of power from the alternator is causing the low voltage. A regulated load will tell you since the alternator is isolated.

On one of these threads I suggested using four 55w bulbs as a simpler version of the load test, but the voltage will vary, so you are only testing discrete points on the voltage/amp curve. That should be enough as long as you can light 4 of them up to 14 or 15v.

Also, rectifiers shave off a couple volts, so really you need to test it up to 16vAC or so with four 55 watt builbs. But that will melt the bulbs so is not recommended.

The test is different for 3-phase, though, since each phase has to share bulbs, the wiring is more complicated.

The open load tests can vary a lot. My 550 which charges fine, only had 71vac at 6000 rpm. I run two halogen headlights on that bike, but I use a stock ignition which saves a lot of power over the Dyna S.

Bottom line right now is, if he verifies the rotor doesn't wobble, then hook up the 3-phase stator to the 3-phase reg/rec, then go from reg/rec straight to battery as I described above. Then measure battery voltage while running.

UPDATE:

OK, so if you've been following this, in our last episode, we put the 3-phase stator (stator #6) off of Fitty (the 50.00 81 LTD parts bike) on that @#$%^&!!! KZ650 and got virtually the same results we got from the used stator ( stator #5) we'd picked up when the rewound stator with less than 400 miles on it (stator #4) was eaten by that @#$%^&!!! KZ650 due to having been improperly installed by mechanic #2. It would put out no more than 63 VAC at 4000 rpm when Clymer says it should be putting out 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm. The previous stator (stator #5) would put out no more than 68 VAC at 4000 rpm.

We swapped rotor #2 out for rotor #3 (off of Fitty, the 50.00 '81 LTD parts bike). Same results with both stators #5 and #6.

And that is where we left you. Are you following it? It's like a fracking soap opera, isn't it? Hey, if you want simple, watch LOST.

So we dove back into it:

We checked rotor #3 as the engine spun on the starter; it
is true.

Mechanic #3 wondered if the tach was off, so we swapped on tach #2 from Fitty, the 50.00 '81 LTD. No change.

We then swapped regulator/rectifier #4 out for regulator/rectifier #5 off of Fitty, the 50.00 '81 LTD, wiring the brown wire to a switched 12v source. If you're keeping track, we now have the entire 3-phase charging system (rotor, stator, and regulator/rectifier) off of Fitty on that @#$%^&!!! KZ650.

It charges EXACTLY the same as it did before, with rotor #2, stator #5 and regulator/rectifier #4. 12.2-12.4 VDC at idle, when held at 4000 rpm, it slowly rises to about 13.6 VDC, drops to 13.3 VDC, slowly rises back to 13.6 VDC, drops back to 13.3 VDC, and continues to go through that cycle as long as it is held at 4000 RPM.

Now this simply cannot be a coincidence.

Mechanic #3 says he just doesn't know what else to do.

I'm lost.

I can't remember, and did not read back through, you have confirmed this with 2 meters?
How about the with the brown wire Disconnected, so the charging system is putting out max DC volts? Check this and see if it goes up, but keep it to 15v or less to keep from hurting things.

Yes, confirmed with 2 meters (henceforth known as meter #1 and meter #2).

Have not done the test with the brown wire disconnected. Will do so.

Are you still running everything through the old wiring?

Like I said above, the one last thing to do (to rule out alternator and reg/rec), is wire directly to the battery with new 16 ga wire from alternator to reg/rec and new 14ga wire from reg/rec to the battery (good and charged). Then measure the voltage on the battery while running.

(If low, then also try with brown disconnected as motor head suggested.)

If that is still low, then you have bad wiring or too much draw.

Like I said, I've been though this on a couple bikes, and they had Dyna S ignitions.

OK, the wiring from the stator to the regulator was replaced when stator #4 was installed, less than 600 miles ago.

When we switched to the 3-phase charging system fro Fitty, we tested with the wiring from the stator to the regulator that was there, and the wiring from the stator to the rotor that was on Fitty. Same results.

I also do not understand how draw can have anything to do with stator output.

Thought you had. Have you done an amperage test? Remember me mentioning a easy way would be to go to a NAPA or similar where they will do a FREE charging/ battery test?
Or an amp clamp, cheap in series amp meter?
The system is 12v, the system must use less current than the charging system is putting out, or battery storage will be lost. So although testing voltage at battery at 4000 rpm is a test, it doesn't show if the current flow from the charging system is greater than the system use.
When testing the AMP output a loaded system has to be created, 1 good tester is the VAT 40. But Harbor Freight, "China Tools", has a inexpensive couple of different battery/ charging system testers. Also LOUDHVX had explained a test you can set up, to load the charging system.

Unloaded stator tests don't mean much. The ones on my 550 read lower than yours when unloaded.

The true test is to wire it to the bike (since that's the only regulated load you have). Then measure battery voltage while running. In that situation, the bike's draw affects stator ouput voltage/current... and hence reg/rec output current.

Motor Head wrote:

Thought you had. Have you done an amperage test? Remember me mentioning a easy way would be to go to a NAPA or similar where they will do a FREE charging/ battery test?
Or an amp clamp, cheap in series amp meter?
The system is 12v, the system must use less current than the charging system is putting out, or battery storage will be lost. So although testing voltage at battery at 4000 rpm is a test, it doesn't show if the current flow from the charging system is greater than the system use.
When testing the AMP output a loaded system has to be created, 1 good tester is the VAT 40. But Harbor Freight, "China Tools", has a inexpensive couple of different battery/ charging system testers. Also LOUDHVX had explained a test you can set up, to load the charging system.

I have not yet taken the bike to a parts store to have a battery test done because I have not yet had the bike running to take it there. I did take it to an Autozone once before durning this non-stop three year-long nightmare to have it checked and was told they only do that on cars.

Everyone keeps asking about the draw, and i keep asking how to measure it, and I never get a clear answer.

I keep hearing that the charging system charges the battery, and the bike then draws power from the battery.

GREAT!

Then how do I measure how much power the bike is drawing from the batter, and measure that against what it should be drawing?

AMP meter, either a clamp or an in series meter. If the amount of AMPs made is greater than the use, then a positive reading. If you are not making enough AMPs, then you will show a negative reading. Older cars/ pick up trucks used to have these from the factory to monitor the system, like oil pressure gauge, fuel, water temp, etc.
Again China Tools has a AMP gauge that is for mounting in a dash board, you could hook it in series and get a reading while adding some more load to the circuit. This will not tell you the total AMP output but will let you know if you are able to make enough current to keep up with the system demand. Then the extra can charge a "Good" battery.