Best Place To Have Stator Rewound?

seanof30306 wrote:

There is only one reasonable conclusion; whatever is causing the poor charging performance, it is NOT the rotor, the stator, the RR, or the wiring between the stator and the RR.

Alright. Based on that conclusion, the next step is the DC test on the battery with independent, new wires.

If that fails, then it's time to start checking draw. This is where Motor Head and I were waiting to get to, but the project seems to be stuck in neutral.

Why so positive it's not a weak magnet on the rotor?

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

Why so positive it's not a weak magnet on the rotor?

Good Fortune!

3 rotors, identical results.

"Once is an accident, twice is a mistake, three times is a conspiracy."

loudhvx wrote:

Alright. Based on that conclusion, the next step is the DC test on the battery with independent, new wires.

If that fails, then it's time to start checking draw. This is where Motor Head and I were waiting to get to, but the project seems to be stuck in neutral.

No.

If the stator is disconnected from the RR, if it is disconnected from the battery, if it is disconnected from the rest of the wiring harness, and if it is disconnected from any possible draw, then they simply cannot possibly be the cause of the low stator output.

I am not stuck in neutral, I am stuck on Step 1.

Independent from the rest of the motorcycle, independent from the battery, independent from the RR, the stator should be outputting 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm. None of the three I have on hand do.

Coincidence is ruled out.

Therefore, causation must be determined.

No draw can be causing it, the stator is not connected to anything that could cause a draw.

No battery can be causing it, the stator is not connected to the battery.

No RR can be causing it, the stator is not connected to to the RR.

And the stator output is the same, even when connected to the RR, but the RR is disconnected from the battery. The stator output is the same, even when connected to the RR, and the RR is connected to the battery.

No difference.

It is not possible that the low stator output is being caused by any draw, battery, or RR problem.

Step one is to get 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm out of the stator.

That's where this is stuck. I need to get 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm.

I am not getting that.

I am not getting that from not only two stators, I am not getting that from two complete charging systems. It does not matter whether I have the single phase, or the three phase system on the bike, the stator output is the smae.

It does not matter which mix and match of parts between the two charging systems is tried, every possible combination has been tried, and the stator output is always the same.

Will you help me discover why I am getting between 63, and 68 VAC @ 4000 rpm when I should be getting 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm, or will you continue to ignore what I say and doggedly push on with your agenda?

Each time I point out that the stator is fully, totally, absolutely, completely disconnected from the wiring harness, from the battery, from the RR, you simply ignore it.

BTW, you keep posting the VAC output of your stator at 3000 rpm. Why not take 5 minutes and check it's output at 4000 rpm? You may be in for a surprise.

I'm wondering if the wiring under the sprocket cover is damaged somehow. There should be 3 approx. 14 gauge yellow wires that have "Bullet Connectors" that mate with what comes out of the alternator stator.

If they are shorted together or even 1 phase is shorted to ground(or more, maybe 2 or three phases)the stator winding will burn out as there are no fuses in this circuit.

These alternators run "Wide Open", that is the total output is controlled by the regulator/rectifier shorting to ground to bleed off the excess energy after the sensing circuit has determined the battery is fully charged. The reg/rect runs hot, so don't block cooling air from the fins on it's package.

If it were me, I'd remove the sprocket cover and inspect the yellow wires going to the regulator/rectifier electrical connector looking for signs of corrosion,overheating, and insulation damage(like rubbing abrasion).

If my memory is correct, the yellow wires are bundled with the side stand switch,neutral indicator, and oil pressure sensor wires going in a channel above the engine sprocket.

MFolks wrote:

I'm wondering if the wiring under the sprocket cover is damaged somehow. There should be 3 approx. 14 gauge yellow wires that have "Bullet Connectors" that mate with what comes out of the alternator stator.

If they are shorted together or even 1 phase is shorted to ground(or more, maybe 2 or three phases)the stator winding will burn out as there are no fuses in this circuit.

These alternators run "Wide Open", that is the total output is controlled by the regulator/rectifier shorting to ground to bleed off the excess energy after the sensing circuit has determined the battery is fully charged. The reg/rect runs hot, so don't block cooling air from the fins on it's package.

If it were me, I'd remove the sprocket cover and inspect the yellow wires going to the regulator/rectifier electrical connector looking for signs of corrosion,overheating, and insulation damage(like rubbing abrasion).

If my memory is correct, the yellow wires are bundled with the side stand switch,neutral indicator, and oil pressure sensor wires going in a channel above the engine sprocket.

Let me make sure I'm understanding you clearly.

The wires run from the stator, out the side cover, and into a connector.

That connector attaches to a mini-harness that runs to the connector to the wires coming out of the RR.

If it's that mini-harness you're describing, that was replaced with a new one when stator #4 was rewound. It's been checked for problems multiple times, and was replaced with the wiring from Fitty (the 50.00 '81 LTD parts bike). When we swapped to the 3-phase charging system, we replaced everything, including the mini-harness, which was carefully inspected before being installed.

seanof30306 wrote:

BTW, you keep posting the VAC output of your stator at 3000 rpm. Why not take 5 minutes and check it's output at 4000 rpm? You may be in for a surprise.

I don't think there'll be any surprises since i viewed the whole thing on a scope at many RPMs.

At 1500 I get 21 VAC.
At 3000 I get 45 VAC.
At 6000 I get 71 VAC.

loudhvx wrote:

seanof30306 wrote:

BTW, you keep posting the VAC output of your stator at 3000 rpm. Why not take 5 minutes and check it's output at 4000 rpm? You may be in for a surprise.

I don't think there'll be any surprises since i viewed the whole thing on a scope at many RPMs.

At 1500 I get 21 VAC.
At 3000 I get 45 VAC.
At 6000 I get 71 VAC.

Right,

But, since the KZ550 service manual I downloaded calls for VAC at 4000, that would be the relevant number to this conversation.

5 minutes with a multimeter is all it takes.

Yeah, but my arms are not 35 miles long.

Right .....

So, is your stator a two-wire or a three-wire?

seanof30306 wrote:

loudhvx wrote:

seanof30306 wrote:

BTW, you keep posting the VAC output of your stator at 3000 rpm. Why not take 5 minutes and check it's output at 4000 rpm? You may be in for a surprise.

I don't think there'll be any surprises since i viewed the whole thing on a scope at many RPMs.

At 1500 I get 21 VAC.
At 3000 I get 45 VAC.
At 6000 I get 71 VAC.

Right,

But, since the KZ550 service manual I downloaded calls for VAC at 4000, that would be the relevant number to this conversation.

5 minutes with a multimeter is all it takes.

Yes, which is why I provided enough information to estimate what it would be at 4000 RPM. I'll do the math for you then.

Based on interpolating a linear approximation, the predicted value for the 3-phase KZ550 would be about 54 VAC at 4000 RPM.

It's been several years since I did the original measurements, but let's see what we get today (way more than 5 minutes, by the way, when the bike is not already out and running).

At 4000 RPM I measure 56 VAC. The prediction was 54. I guess I wasn't in for any surprise after all. Gee whiz.

So the Cl*mer manual had the information backwards. Absolutely no surprise there. I recall someone predicting the manual was wrong. It's a good thing people are willing to check and verify, rather taking the manual as gospel.

And the 1-phase puts out higher open-load VAC (about 75 VAC as measured by Motor Head) than the 3-phase. Hmmm. No surprise there.

Right .....

So, is your stator a two-wire or a three-wire?