Best Place To Have Stator Rewound?

Motor Head wrote:

You wrote:

I don't understand. The stator output tests are done before the regulator rectifier. As a matter of fact, we have tested both stator #5 and stator #6 with the harness to the regulator/rectifier unplugged.

I don't understand how the brown wire can have anything to do with whether the stator puts out 75 VAC at 4000 rpm, or has less than 4 ohms' resistance?

The brown wire is the only wire to disconnect, the other wires from the Stator to the R/R stay in place. Then the system will make a full amount of DCV, measuring at the battery. It should climb up steadily with RPM, being careful not to exceed 15v as the system will probably blow some bulbs. This will tell you that the 65 ACV that the Stator is making, has passed through the R/R and now is how much measured?? DCV. You can add some additional load to the system like I talked about before, say another head lamp or two, and it should still make the same amount, or real close, at the same RPM. This tells you the current in demand by the system is being met by the Stator and Rectifier, We are over riding the Regulator.

OH

MY

GOD!!!!~

One More Time.

1. The stators were all tested for resistance on the BENCH. Not only were they not connected to the regulator/rectifier, they were not even on the motorcycle! The regulator/rectifier and/or the brown wire have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the stators all have significantly greater resistance than they are supposed to.

2. The wires running from the stator to the regulator/rectifier were DISCONNECTED when the output was tested. This was done specifically to isolate the stator from the rest of the motorcycle. The stators were tested again with the wires running from the stator to the regulator/rectifier hooked up, to see if there was any difference. There was not. The regulator/rectifier and/or the brown wire have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the stators do not output a"about 75 VAC", as they are supposed to.

ONE MORE TIME. Before I become concerned with DCV, before I become concerned with the regulator/rectifier, before I become concerned with ANYTHING else, I am going to find ou why all three stators have resistance significantly higher than they should, and why they put out less VAC than they should. Once that is resolved, I will move on.

Why do you insist on fighting with me? I've pleaded with you to stop. I've pleaded with you to help me. if you're not going to, then why do you insist on keeping it up?

Please, help me find out why the stators have too much resistance, and too little output. If you can't (or won't) do that, then please just go away. Why would you come on a board where people go for help, see what an awful ordeal I have been going through for the past 3+ years, and torture me?

First calm down, take a breath.
I'm not trying to challenge you, I am trying to help, maybe since it ha been going ON for so long you are getting fed up, I understand.

You Wrote:
There's not something else causing this? Really? Every single stator, including the rewound one, is defective? Really? Every single regulator/rectifier is defective, including the new one? Really? All three mechanics are fools? Really? Both meters have the same defect? Really?


This won't help.
Yes I said there is an underling Issue here that has not for what ever reason been found, and I may be going on about stuff you have checked 100 times. But I still would be making some current/ AMP measurements, loading the system. This is how it is done in the Professional Automotive world, which I'm part of.
Don't take it wrong, electrical gets the best of every top notch mechanic sometimes, Me several, lost my ass on some and was the savior on others.

Motor Head wrote:

First calm down, take a breath.
I'm not trying to challenge you, I am trying to help, maybe since it ha been going ON for so long you are getting fed up, I understand.

You Wrote:
There's not something else causing this? Really? Every single stator, including the rewound one, is defective? Really? Every single regulator/rectifier is defective, including the new one? Really? All three mechanics are fools? Really? Both meters have the same defect? Really?


This won't help.
Yes I said there is an underling Issue here that has not for what ever reason been found, and I may be going on about stuff you have checked 100 times. But I still would be making some current/ AMP measurements, loading the system. This is how it is done in the Professional Automotive world, which I'm part of.
Don't take it wrong, electrical gets the best of every top notch mechanic sometimes, Me several, lost my ass on some and was the savior on others.

Here is what is going to happen.

1. I am going to find out why the resistance on all the stators is too high. Something is causing that.

2. I am going to find out why the stators don't put out enough power. Something is causing that.

I am not going to run DCV tests with the brown wire disconnected until 1 and 2 are understood and resolved.

I am not going to take the bike around to parts stores to be put on testers until 1 and 2 are understood and resolved.

I am not going to do ANYTHING else until 1 and 2 are understood and resolved, because everything else is irrelevant until 1 and 2 are understood and resolved.

Now, this is clearly a complex problem, and I simply cannoth go over every step of the process every time someone makes another response, especially when I'm having to defend the entire process. i can't do that. i won't do that. So, if you can't go back and look for answers to those questions, if you're unwilling to work this problem with me with the understanding that the stator(s) resistance and output issues will be understood and resolved first, then I would, with great regret, ask that you not participate anymore.

Yea sure thing, I've got better stuff to do any way than be here with you problems.
Just be kinder to the other fellow riders who also might offer some help that you don't like the sound of.
And when you are satisfied with your findings and repair please post that up for all to see.

Motor Head wrote:

Yea sure thing, I've got better stuff to do any way than be here with you problems.
Just be kinder to the other fellow riders who also might offer some help that you don't like the sound of.
And when you are satisfied with your findings and repair please post that up for all to see.

Yea, sure thing. Now go find some other poor slobs posting about his problem and torture him.

And be kinder? Go back and read your posts of today, where you dug your heels in, refused to address the core problem I kept asking you to help me with, instead constantly repeating things to do I'd already told you were down the line from what I'd determined I was going to focus on, then started the used stators, bad leads on the test equipment crap.

if you didn't agree with the direction I kept insisting i was going to go in, then why not just go away? All you were doing was fucking with me, and now you pull the whiney "who me?" innocent garbage.

If you're going to be a jerk to someone, at least have the cojones to stand up when called out on it. Man up!

Have a nice day.

Yes, shrug off the unloaded test. Please get past that.

The last thing I recommended requires two wires and a voltmeter. All stuff I think you have.

I'm sorry you bought the manuals. You can sell them on ebay.

Motor Head has given great advice in this thread..

seanof30306 wrote:

Here is what is going to happen.

1. I am going to find out why the resistance on all the stators is too high. Something is causing that.

There are many reasons for this. Meter calibration at low resistance is sometimes sketchy, or it just could be older copper is causing the resistance to bump up a little. If they are in the 1-ohm or less range. I shrug off this test too.


seanof30306 wrote:

2. I am going to find out why the stators don't put out enough power. Something is causing that.

You have not determined this yet. Unloaded ACV measurement is NOT[/b} a measurement of power. I'm sorry if this is over your head, but ACV does not equal power. You didn't like my suggestion for a power test on the stator, so you only have unloaded ACV measurment which is gives too little info to tell anything. Fine, then next step is the DC test.

Then systematically identifying loads on the bike.

loudhvx wrote:

Yes, shrug off the unloaded test. Please get past that.

The last thing I recommended requires two wires and a voltmeter. All stuff I think you have.

I'm sorry you bought the manuals. You can sell them on ebay.

Motor Head has given great advice in this thread.

Loud, thanks for your help.

The stators have too much resistance, and too little output. I need to find out why.

Will you please help me do that?

You may think I'm being stubborn. Perhaps I am. Before you make that judgement, though, take a monent to review all the threads concerning this problem over the past three+ years, and see how many different directions I've been run in.

I'll give you an analogy to try to explain where I am. Let's say my Firebird starts running like crap. I go to the manual, which says I should have 45 lbs of fuel pressure. I test it multiple times, and come up with 38. Over and over again; 38. I replace the fuel filter. 38 lbs. I replace the fuel pump. 38 lbs. I replace all the fuel lines. 38 lbs. Clearly, there is something going on here that is above the norm.

People start telling me to look into the throttle body, the injectors, the air intake, MAF, the PCM. There may well be problems with them, but the only way to know for sure is to resolve the low fuel pressure issue, as the throttle body and injectors are downstream from the pump, and can be negatively affected by the low fuel pressure, and the PCM cannot arrive at a proper air/fuel mixture without sufficient fule, which requires sufficient fuel pressure.

Mybe my analogy is good, maybe it's bad, Mayhe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but after being run in every different direction for over three years, after throwing over a thousand dollars woth of stators, regulator/rectifiers, rotors, wiring harnesses, batteries, etc., and probably a thousand dollars more in labor, I'm going to take charge of this and adopt a systematic approach; the very same type of approach outlined in the electrosport troubleshooting guide everyone raves about.

That 75 VAC number is correct. Go to KZ650.info and check for yourself. That's what a properly operating KZ650 stator puts out. You see it discussed over and over. Stators #2 and #3 on that @#$%^&!!!! KZ650 both put out 75-77 VAC before they were eaten.

Regardless, that is the number I'm going to work with, until I've attacked the problem long enough without success to decide to go another way.

I could really use your help. Will you help me?

After reading the last few posts more closely, I guess Motor Head and I can't help you. Hopefully someone more knowledgable will chime in.

seanof30306 wrote:

"The stators were all tested for resistance on the BENCH. Not only were they not connected to the regulator/rectifier, they were not even on the motorcycle! ... I am going to find out why the resistance on all the stators is too high. Something is causing that."

OK; let's think about this for a second. What could cause the resistance to read too high? Since the stator is hooked to nothing execpt the meter it strikes me that it could only be one or more of the following 5 things:

1. All stators (6??) tested had a similar resistance problem.
2. The desired resistance specified in the manuals (2 different manuals) was incorrect.
3. The meters (2 or more) were faulty in a similar way.
4. The leads or connections between the meters and the stators were faulty.
5. Karma

I'm betting on #5. You keep referring to your bike as that "@#$%^&!!! KZ650." That puts out some really negative vibes. Try changing its name to something positive like "my beautiful red classic KZ650." I think you'll find the bike will treat you better if it believes you actually like it. Oh, or it could be the pods.

loudhvx wrote:

There are many reasons for this. Meter calibration at low resistance is sometimes sketchy, or it just could be older copper is causing the resistance to bump up a little. If they are in the 1-ohm or less range. I shrug off this test too.

Tested with two meters with the exact same results.

Stator #4 has less than 600 miles on a fresh rewind with new copper wire from Rick's, and tested with the highest resistance, .11 when it should have been .4. Rick's confirmed that anything over .4 was bad.


loudhvx wrote:

You have not determined this yet. Unloaded ACV measurement is NOT[/b} a measurement of power. I'm sorry if this is over your head, but ACV does not equal power. You didn't like my suggestion for a power test on the stator, so you only have unloaded ACV measurment which is gives too little info to tell anything. Fine, then next step is the DC test.

Then systematically identifying loads on the bike.

All I can tell you is two of the six stators I've had on the bike put out between 75 and 77 VAC, post after post on KZ650.info has correctly charging KZ650s putting out 75 VAC, and I'm going to find out why stator #s 5 and 6 don't.

650ed wrote:

seanof30306 wrote:

"The stators were all tested for resistance on the BENCH. Not only were they not connected to the regulator/rectifier, they were not even on the motorcycle! ... I am going to find out why the resistance on all the stators is too high. Something is causing that."

OK; let's think about this for a second. What could cause the resistance to read too high? Since the stator is hooked to nothing execpt the meter it strikes me that it could only be one or more of the following 5 things:

1. All stators (6??) tested had a similar resistance problem.
2. The desired resistance specified in the manuals (2 different manuals) was incorrect.
3. The meters (2 or more) were faulty in a similar way.
4. The leads or connections between the meters and the stators were faulty.
5. Karma

I'm betting on #5. You keep referring to your bike as that "@#$%^&!!! KZ650." That puts out some really negative vibes. Try changing its name to something positive like "my beautiful red classic KZ650." I think you'll find the bike will treat you better if it believes you actually like it. Oh, or it could be the pods.

Have you considered the Karma that beautiful red @#$%^&!!! KZ650 is putting out?