Best Place To Have Stator Rewound?

loudhvx wrote:

Unloaded stator tests don't mean much. The ones on my 550 read lower than yours when unloaded.

The true test is to wire it to the bike (since that's the only regulated load you have). Then measure battery voltage while running. In that situation, the bike's draw affects stator ouput voltage/current... and hence reg/rec output current.

You know, if you go back prior to my update of today, there is a very involved back and forth between you and Motorhead. I read it, and was totally demoralized. It is completely over my head, and you guys just bat it around like it's everyday stuff.

I am very appreciative of the help, but in order to be of help, you're going to have to first accept the fact that I am me, not Motorhead, and don't understand what you're talking about. I don't have 5 automotive headlights laying around, and couldn't wire them up if I did.

Here is what I know. Everyone told me at the beginning of this nightmare to get a Clymer manual, and a factory service manual, and I did.

Both of those say I should be getting 75 VAC output from the stator, and I'm not. Both of those say the stator should have no more than 4 ohms' resistance, and all three that I have on hand do.

You shrug those tests off as irrelevant, and it makes me absolutely nuts. If they're irrelevant, then why was I directed to the Clymer and the factory service manual in the first place?

I've made a career out of solving problems, and here is what I know. You start at the beginning. Here, the beginning is stator output. If it should be putting out 75 VAC at 4000 rpm, and the stator is to have no more than 4 ohms' resistance, then that is what needs to be resolved first.

Before going downstream, I need to find out why my stator(s) don't put out 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm, and why they all show as greater than 4 ohms' resistance.

When that is resolved, then we move on to the wiring, regulator/rectifier, etc. Draw, battery, regulator/rectifier, etc. is all irrelevant if the stator is not putting out spec power.

Motor Head wrote:

AMP meter, either a clamp or an in series meter. If the amount of AMPs made is greater than the use, then a positive reading. If you are not making enough AMPs, then you will show a negative reading. Older cars/ pick up trucks used to have these from the factory to monitor the system, like oil pressure gauge, fuel, water temp, etc.
Again China Tools has a AMP gauge that is for mounting in a dash board, you could hook it in series and get a reading while adding some more load to the circuit. This will not tell you the total AMP output but will let you know if you are able to make enough current to keep up with the system demand. Then the extra can charge a "Good" battery.

OH ... MY ... GOD .....

Have you, by chance, seen this thread?

kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...ew&catid=4&id=383996

In it, I speak of wanting to install an AMP meter on my bike. The consensus was, I was nuts, that what I need is a VOLT meter.

How am I ever supposed to be able to solve this when everyone is telling me to go in different directions?

ONce again. Clymer and the factory service manual say the stator should be outputting 75 VAC at 4000 rpm, and have less than 4 ohms resistance. None of the stators i have on hand do that. The draw, the battery, etc., have nothing to do with that.

How do i find out why none of my stators will put out 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm, and have less than 4 ohms' resistance?

Do the Factory voltage test with the brown wire
un-plugged, as that is supposed to let it make a full
un-regulated DC voltage.

And I think you might check that 4 ohms, no its .32-.48 on the 1 ohm scale.
FSM says about 75 VAC at @4000rpm. Not real specific.
Also says 14.5 @ battery @4000rpm very specific.
Your Volts DC does sound low, but is it related to a potential battery problem?
Sorry if it sounds like going in different directions, I understand the frustration.
Keep at.

Motor Head wrote:

Do the Factory voltage test with the brown wire
un-plugged, as that is supposed to let it make a full
un-regulated DC voltage.

I don't understand. The stator output tests are done before the regulator rectifier. As a matter of fact, we have tested both stator #5 and stator #6 with the harness to the regulator/rectifier unplugged.

I don't understand how the brown wire can have anything to do with whether the stator puts out 75 VAC at 4000 rpm, or has less than 4 ohms' resistance?

Please don't think I'm not grateful for your attempts at helping, I absolutely am, but I'm getting conflicting advice, most of which is over my head, and almost all of which does not address the core issue of stator output and resistance.

VAC is before the R/R, VDC is after. The Regulator controls the voltage and current flow, The rectifier is a series of diodes that take away the AC wave oscillation, making DC. This set of diodes if leaking will produce AC ripple current, to much is bad. Or if 1 of the diodes has an open then you will loose current, low current will make the battery discharge. Current is an important measurement, as this is the LOAD of any electrical device.

Motor Head wrote:

And I think you might check that 4 ohms, no its .32-.48 on the 1 ohm scale.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what that means.

Motor Head wrote:

FSM says about 75 VAC at @4000rpm. Not real specific.

To me, 73-77, maybe 72-78 is "about 75 VAC". 63 VAC does not, in my mind, meet the definition of "about 75 VAC". Especially when, over three years ago, the consensus on here when stator #1 would put out no more than 70 VAC was that it needed to be replaced, or rewound. If 70 VAC wasn't "about 75 VAC" then, 63 VAC sure ain't now.

Motor Head wrote:

Also says 14.5 @ battery @4000rpm very specific.

Agreed. However, is that a problem with the regulator/rectifier, battery, or wiring, or I it caused by the stator not putting out "about" 75 VAC? I can tell you, in the professional problem-solving world, if your first benchmark is not reached, nothing downstream of that can be correctly diagnosed until the problem with that first benchmark is resolved. You don't paint the drywall till it's hung on the wall.

Motor Head wrote:

Your Volts DC does sound low, but is it related to a potential battery problem?

Well, since I'm currently on battery #4, I'd say throwing more batteries at it has a low probability of success. After 4 batteries, I feel pretty comfortable in saying batteries are symptomatic, not causal.

Motor Head wrote:

VAC is before the R/R, VDC is after. The Regulator controls the voltage and current flow, The rectifier is a series of diodes that take away the AC wave oscillation, making DC. This set of diodes if leaking will produce AC ripple current, to much is bad. Or if 1 of the diodes has an open then you will loose current, low current will make the battery discharge. Current is an important measurement, as this is the LOAD of any electrical device.

But how can the regulator/rectifier have an effect on the output of the stator, or the resistance of the stator, especially when the stator's output has been checked and found unsatifactory with the regulator/rectifier is disconnected, and the stators were tested on the bench?

That ohm measurement is directly out of the 550 FSM. It is telling you to read the correct scale for your ohms.
Did you see where LOUDVHX had stated his VAC at the stator on his 550? Low as well and he has no charging issues, his battery stays fine. I'm not in a position at the moment to go and check mine all out, but it works fine.
I'm only making some suggestions for a battery issue, 4 well you could still have 1 that is defective now, a tester would tell you, then hopefully rule that out.
I agree on the bench mark if the stairs are missing you can't reach the top.

Edit: Those are unloaded tests of your stator ACV, yes that is the procedure in the Kaw FSM.
I would try to get some Loaded test info, as you will have more clear output info.

Motor Head wrote:

That ohm measurement is directly out of the 550 FSM. It is telling you to read the correct scale for your ohms.
Did you see where LOUDVHX had stated his VAC at the stator on his 550? Low as well and he has no charging issues, his battery stays fine. I'm not in a position at the moment to go and check mine all out, but it works fine.
I'm only making some suggestions for a battery issue, 4 well you could still have 1 that is defective now, a tester would tell you, then hopefully rule that out.
I agree on the bench mark if the stairs are missing you can't reach the top.

Well, after three years of being sent in every direction imaginable (not just from these forums, but from everyone who has worked on the bike as well), and constantly throwing parts at this problem with no resolution, I have made the decision that I will start at the beginning and work through it systematically.

Looking at the troubleshooting diagram from electrosport.com, I don't think I am suggesting anything that is out of the ordiny. That troubleshooting guide, which is recommended by virtually everyone, is extremely specific and systematic.

So, what I am asking you an all of the others who have so kindly offered their help and advice to do is help me discover why the stator output and resistance are not what they should be. I NEED that help, and I certainly hope I'm not offending or insulting anyone, that is absolutely the last thing I want to do, but I am absolutely determined to resolve stator output and resistance before looking at anything else.

As far as the ohm's reading, the manual is across town with the bike at mechanic #3's shop, so whether it's 4 ohms or .4 ohms, or ,04 ohms I cannot say. What I can say with absolute certainty is the tests in the manual were performed correctly, multiple times, and all three stators tested had resistance greater than what the manual called for.

3 stators out of good Kaw's, or rewound ones? If factory stators, are you really sure of your measurements? A defective test lead, dirty contact, poor solder/ crimp is all it would take to throw off even the most accurate meter. It is definitely .3-.4 ohm and not 4 ohm. Could this be where you are off? The best and basically free thing to do would be to have a newer type of electronic tester that is available at most of the Auto Parts stores, for a free test. They can show you the AMP/ current output of the system without buying anything. They want to sell you parts, that is why they also do free OBD2 code reading.

You wrote:

I don't understand. The stator output tests are done before the regulator rectifier. As a matter of fact, we have tested both stator #5 and stator #6 with the harness to the regulator/rectifier unplugged.

I don't understand how the brown wire can have anything to do with whether the stator puts out 75 VAC at 4000 rpm, or has less than 4 ohms' resistance?

The brown wire is the only wire to disconnect, the other wires from the Stator to the R/R stay in place. Then the system will make a full amount of DCV, measuring at the battery. It should climb up steadily with RPM, being careful not to exceed 15v as the system will probably blow some bulbs. This will tell you that the 65 ACV that the Stator is making, has passed through the R/R and now is how much measured?? DCV. You can add some additional load to the system like I talked about before, say another head lamp or two, and it should still make the same amount, or real close, at the same RPM. This tells you the current in demand by the system is being met by the Stator and Rectifier, We are over riding the Regulator.

Motor Head wrote:

3 stators out of good Kaw's, or rewound ones? If factory stators, are you really sure of your measurements? A defective test lead, dirty contact, poor solder/ crimp is all it would take to throw off even the most accurate meter. It is definitely .3-.4 ohm and not 4 ohm. Could this be where you are off? The best and basically free thing to do would be to have a newer type of electronic tester that is available at most of the Auto Parts stores, for a free test. They can show you the AMP/ current output of the system without buying anything. They want to sell you parts, that is why they also do free OBD2 code reading.

Dude, I deal poker for a living, and play poker for all of my "play money". In order to be successful at poker, I've had to learn a lot about probability, because you cannot make a profit at poker without a solid understanding of it.

I can tell you, with a great degree of certainty, a HUGE degree of certainty, that the odds of having three stators test consistently the same on two different meters, and having those reading not be accurate are pretty long.

And one more time. I do not have the manuals in front of me, they are across town with the bike, so I could not be sure whether it was 4 ohms, .4 ohms, or .04 ohms, but WHATEVER it is, I can absolutely, positively, 100% tell you that the tests were all performed with each step being read aloud by either myself, or mechanic #3s wife, thet they were performed correctly, and that all three of those stators have resistance significantly greater than what the manuals call for. There is NO question.

And are you going to go to the "used" parts thing? Really? After 6 stators? Two years ago, after I got hammered on that one after stating that three used stators all being bad was statistically improbable, I had one of them rewound. That is stator #5. It has less than 600 miles on it, and it was one of the three stators we tested. It actually had the highest resistance.

Dude, last week, YOU were agreeing with me that there must be an underlying cause. Now you're challenging everything I say. I may not be overly knowledgable, but I am not a moron.

6 stators.

5 regulator/rectifiers

3 rotors,

4 batteries

3 mechanics

2 different meters (this time), at least 7 different meters throughout the life of this problem.

There's not something else causing this? Really? Every single stator, including the rewound one, is defective? Really? Every single regulator/rectifier is defective, including the new one? Really? All three mechanics are fools? Really? Both meters have the same defect? Really?

Please, I need help here. I don't want to fight, I don't want to argue. I just want to ride my bike. You clearly know a lot about this, won't you please stop challenging me and help me solve this?

If you will, then please, please, focus with me on the core issue. Why do none of the stators output about 75 VAC, and why do all of them show significantly greater resistance than what is called for in the manuals?

Please, help me.