Best Place To Have Stator Rewound?

I wouldn't expect the 3-phase stator to have the same unloaded reading as the 1-phase. Three phase splits the power into smaller parts, and hence the unloaded ACV would be lower too.

Not that it can't have the same unloaded ACV reading, I just wouldn't expect it. I'd expect the 3-phase to be lower.

If the Rick's was good in your book, then get another, and hopefully install it without breaking it. The Rick's was heavier duty, and that's probably what you need anyway.

I have the manual for the '81 with the three phase, and I have the manual for the '79 with the one phase. Both call for the exact same specs.

I don't know whether the Rick's was good, or not. All I can say is a company often recommended on here agrees with me on the specifications for resistance and output, and I didn't tell them what the book called for when I asked.

And no more new parts until I understand what caused the last one to fail, and am convinced the problem that caused the failure is resolved.

Been way too much throwing parts at this thing already.

loudhvx wrote:

If the Rick's was good in your book, then get another, and hopefully install it without breaking it. The Rick's was heavier duty, and that's probably what you need anyway.

I see, and so, when I was considering buying the '81 LTD parts bike to get the three-phase charging system, and your advice was to do so because the three-phase charging system was "smoother, with less ripple", you are now telling me to rip that off the bike, that having the one-phase stator from Ricks rewound again is what I need?

See what I mean about being run in all different directions? You make a from-the hip diagnosis without giving it much thought, and I end up running all over town to borrow a hitch hauler, drive 60 miles to get the 81 LTD, drive 40 miles to get it to the shop so mechanic #3 can pull the charging system off the bike, drive 20 miles to drop the hitch hauler back off, then 20 miles back to the shop. Then there's the 60 bucks I paid for the bike.

Now, you do a complete 180, with no explanation, and I'm either (once again) off in a completely different, and even more expensive direction, or, if I dare to speak up and say "wait a minute", you'll tell me to go frack myself, pick up your toys, and go home.

The rotor is another example. You said I could have the wrong rotor. I called the used parts place here in Tulsa and asked. He said they changed the charging system in 83 or 84, I don't remember which right now, and that if I had a '79 stator inside an '83 or '84 or whatever year rotor, the bike wouldn't charge at all. He also said he's been selling parts for these bikes for over 40 years, and there are not the multiple rotors you insist there are. I said as much, and you insisted that was not correct, so I drove over to the used parts place and looked at the two, and they are nothing alike. When you put my stator in my rotor, you have less than half an inch of clearance. When you put my stator inside of the later rotor, there's a huge clearance. There is no mistaking the two. You still insisted I was wrong, so I spent an afternoon going to the parts fiche for every single KZ 650 model and posting the results. You still insisted i was wrong, and even though there are only two part numbers for rotors for every single year of KZ650 that used a stator/rotor charging system, you still insisted I was wrong, saying the parts fiches are screwed up.

Now, I don't care about being right or wrong. The only thing that matters to me is results; solving the problem.

I just want to ride my bike. That's all.

What frustrates me is the wasted money and time. You make some off-the-cuff comment, and hang there, forcing me to run all over the place, spend unnecessary money, and waste time and effort to prove you wrong, just so we can move on and refocus on the problem.

I just want to ride my bike.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationWithout going through all 6 pages... Just came across this... Not sure of your exact part # but worth checking out since NEW OEM from Babbitts ~ $450

New KZ650 stator $95....

Thanks OMR, but after 6 stators, 5 regulator/rectifiers, 4 batteries, 3 rotors, 3 mechanics, 2 turtle doves and a partridge in a pear tree, I've decided no new parts till I understand why old ones are being eaten, and have that resolved.

As Dr. Phil says, "The definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting a different result."

EDIT: That is a three-phase stator, by the way, which is the direction I've gone in. When I buy a new stator, though I want a high output one. I believe ElectroSport manufactures them.

Thanks again for thinking of me, though.

1980 KZ650

UPDATE:

Ok, so I clipped the yellow wires that go to the stator. I had to clip off the bullet connectors, they were corroded and melted. As I was taking off 3 miles of electrical tape, I have a feeling that I am not the first to do electrical work on this bike. I tested the impedance of the two yellow wires, and it came out to .5 ohms. I assume this is good. I also tested the impedance between the yellow wires and ground, and it was infinite. I assume this is also good.
.

UPDATE #2:

So I put new connections on the rectifier/regulator hookup. Everything is nice and clean now. I started up the engine and checked the AC voltage of the stator. The stator is sending out about 30-35v at 1500 RPM's and about 74v at 4000 RPM's.

forums.kz650.info/index.php?topic=4038.0



KZ650 C2

I put a new battery in it and soldered a few connections instead of using bullets and the bike puts out 75v at 4000 rpm at the stator. At the battery I get 13.4v at idle and 14.5v at 4500. I went for a 8 mile ride and when I got back I measured only 13.5 at 4000. WTH!!

So I'm poking around under the panel and touch one of the yellow wires going into the reg/rec and it falls apart easily. These were the only bullets I didn't replace. So I cut them and installed 1/4" spade connectors and it went back to 14.5v. :dance: :peaceride:

forums.kz650.info/index.php?topic=2896.0



1978 KZ650 B2

I get 20VAC from the stator at idle and about 60VAC at 3500rpm.

forums.kz650.info/index.php?topic=2102.0

If I understand correctly (forgive me if I am wrong) you have a 1979 KZ650 that originally came with a single phase system. That system failed and you are now trying to switch to a 3-phase system. I don't really understand why one would do that, but if they were successful all would be fine. Clearly, you have not had much success in this endeavor. I don't know if you have switched every related component to the 3-phase system or if there may be a hidden mismatch someplace that is causing the ongoing problem. Clearly the single phase system has worked for many years on many KZ650s. If it was my bike I would bite the bullet and purchase all new pieces for the original single phase system and be done with it. Keeping things original is usually the simplest solution since we know the various systems on the bikes worked when the bike were on the showroom floors. Ed

For comparison, FSM says 1979 KZ1000 alternator output voltage is supposed to be about 50vAC @4,000 rpm, measured between any two of the three yellow leads from the stator.

FSM also says, if the stator coil winds have normal resistance, but the voltage check showed the alternator to be defective; then the rotor magnets have probably weakened, and the rotor must be replaced.

An analog meter is pictured in the FSM testing illustrations, not a digital meter.

Don't know whether relevant in this case, but recall reading somewhere that sometimes a digital meter is reportedly inaccurate for certain motorcycle voltage testing. But having always used analog, can't speak from hands-on experience.

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

For comparison, FSM says 1979 KZ1000 alternator output voltage is supposed to be about 50vAC @4,000 rpm, measured between any two of the three yellow leads from the stator.

FSM also says, if the stator coil winds have normal resistance, but the voltage check showed the alternator to be defective; then the rotor magnets have probably weakened, and the rotor must be replaced.

An analog meter is pictured in the FSM, not a digital meter.

Don't know whether relevant in this case, but recall reading somewhere that sometimes a digital meter is reportedly inaccurate for certain motorcycle voltage testing. But having always used analog, can't speak from hands-on experience.

Good Fortune!

Patton, my aggressively-named friend, one point immediately comes to mind:

If the FSM calling for 50 VAC @ 4000 rpm on a '79 KZ1000 is relevant and valid, then why would the FSM calling for 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm on a '79 KZ650 not also be relevant and valid?

Also, based upon your earlier advice in another thread, I bought an analog meter. All testing has been done with my analog and mechanic #3's digital meters. The results were identical.

Also, how about the documentation I provided above of numerous KZ650s generating 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm?

I simply cannot understand why there is so much grief and resistance to this specification outlined in both the Clymer Manual and the FCM, and duplicated time and again by KZ650s.

I really resent all of the grief, drama, and most importantly, TIME being sucked up by this silly issue. Another damned summer is slipping by without my being able to ride my bike, and I've wasted two days on this foolishness.

The FSM calls for 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm.

The Clymer Manual calls for 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm.

Stator #2 put out 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm ... then it died

Stator #3 put out 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm ... then it died

Numerous KZ650s put out 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm, as documented above.

I'm not interested in what KZ1000s put out, or what their FSMs call for.

I'm not interested in what KZ550s put out, or what their FSMs call for.

The KZ650 FSM and the Clymer FSM call for 75 VAC @ 4000 rpm, and that is the benchmark that must be achieved on that beautiful, classic @#$%^&!!! KZ650 before I move on doen the line to the RR

650ed wrote:

If I understand correctly (forgive me if I am wrong) you have a 1979 KZ650 that originally came with a single phase system. That system failed and you are now trying to switch to a 3-phase system. I don't really understand why one would do that, but if they were successful all would be fine. Clearly, you have not had much success in this endeavor. I don't know if you have switched every related component to the 3-phase system or if there may be a hidden mismatch someplace that is causing the ongoing problem. Clearly the single phase system has worked for many years on many KZ650s. If it was my bike I would bite the bullet and purchase all new pieces for the original single phase system and be done with it. Keeping things original is usually the simplest solution since we know the various systems on the bikes worked when the bike were on the showroom floors. Ed

Ed,

This has been a long, drawn out process, so it's understandable that you don't know the details.

You cannot get a new single phase stator for a KZ650. You can however, have one rewound. That's as close to new as you can get, and that's what I did, having it rewound by rick's motorsport electrics.

You can get a new regulator/rectifier for a kz650, and that's what I did, buying one from z1enterprises.com

You cannot get a new rotor for a kz650. All you can do is replace it with a used one from another bike. That's what I did ... twice.

You can get a new battery for a KZ650, and that's what I did ... 4 times.

You can get a new wiring harness from the stator to the regulator/rectifier, and that's what I did, getting it from Rick's when I had them rewind the stator.

Several years back in this process, a member insisted the three stators and three regulators that had been destroyed previously were not indicative of an underlying problem because, even though they all tested good before being installed, they were used parts.

I bit the bullet and bought the new regulator/rectifier, wiring harness, and battery, and had the stator rewound. The RR, stator and battery had all failed within 400 miles. I assume the harness is still good, a close visual check reveals no problems.

The 6 stators, 5 regulators, and 4 batteries sacrificed (so far) on the alter of this problem have all been consumed in under less than 3000 miles of riding.

At this point, the chances of me throwing more parts at this problem without first understanding why it's eaten all those before and resolving that are absolutely zero. Nothing in the history of this process indicates another new stator, RR, and battery would have the slightest chance of surviving 1000 miles of riding.

As far as swapping to the three phase system, it was a complete swap. The stator, rotor, RR and wiring harness were all taken off of Fitty (the 50.00 '81 CSR parts bike. There is no mismatch.

There were a number of reasons for he swap:

1. It's a better charging sysem.

2. You can get new stators for it; ones that put out at least 20% over stock.

3. The price was right.

4. To define the problem.

Consider this. Prior to swapping over to the three-phase charging system, that beautiful, red, @#$%^&!!! KZ650 charged at 12.2-12.4 VDC @ idle, and would slowly rise to a maximum of 13.6 VDC @ 4000 rpm, then drop back to 13.3 VDC, then rise slowly back to 13.6 VDC again, and repeat the process as regularly as clockwork for as long as the test continued. Additionally, stator output was a maximum of 68 VAC @ 4000 rpm.

We changed the entire charging system. We changed the rotor, we changed the stator, we changed the RR, we changed the wiring between the stator and the RR, and retested it. That beautiful, red, @#$%^&!!! KZ650 charged at 12.2-12.4 VDC @ idle, and would slowly rise to a maximum of 13.6 VDC @ 4000 rpm, then drop back to 13.3 VDC, then rise slowly back to 13.6 VDC again, and repeat the process as regularly as clockwork for as long as the test continued. Additionally, stator output was a maximum of 63 VAC @ 4000 rpm.

The results were virtually identical.

There is only one reasonable conclusion; whatever is causing the poor charging performance, it is NOT the rotor, the stator, the RR, or the wiring between the stator and the RR.

Not only is this proven out by the results of this test, where we changed out the entire charging system in one fell swoop, it is also proven out by all of the other components that have been replaced during this process, none of which have resolved the problem.

Something else is causing this, and no new parts go on till that cause is known and resolved.

Hmmm... Ok, let's see if this may or may not help.... If you already provided, my bad...

Has this testing been accomplished with bare minimal electrical terminations... If so, problem still lies in this bare minimal configuration....

EDIT: I realize this is a different wiring diagram then yours, all I have for the KZ650.... Same time, same concept for any KZ... There's only so many components required in engine starting/running and charging system...

Keep at it, you'll find it....

When someone gives advice and you don't take it, then we have no choice but to go in other directions don't we?