My first 440 "cafè'ish" build.

Sup forum. I'm a noob here, but have been lurking about for the past 2 months or so getting info and ideas for my adventure. Long story short, got this bike from a really good friend of mine after sorting out his issues with a sooby swap into a syncro. Anyways, the biggest things my buddy did was get the motor freshened up with a rebuild, new tires and was able to find a stock filter cartridge for the air box. Well sucks cause I'll be ripping those things off If you didn't happened to read my introduction post in the "new members section" I'll just say that I'm not scared of metal. We get along great 90% of the time.lol
Well this is gonna be a slow build cause I've got TONS of work to do at the shop I work at, I'll post a few pics of how my bike looked on day one and a few in betweenies till now.
I'm still in the mock up stage for a few things mainly the rear cause I opted to run 18" wires front and back instead of the 19-16 mags that were on there. Sooo on with pics..
Oh the bike sat for about a year before It made it's way to me.
All stock, non molested.


got it to my shop. it's is pre-wire wheel decision with a little tear down in progress


little more . . .dirt removed?


Front torn apart, not the bars I'm gonna run. just wanted to see how it'll look flipped.


New rear hoop tacked in, made a string that ran even with the bottom of the gas tank so I wouldn't have to keep putting it on then taking it off. I know the rear wheel is really close here, and it is. haven't made the new shock mounts for the new shocks yet.


new electronics tray and batt box..kinda went over board on the rec/reg. mount.




closer pic of e rec/reg.

Scored these off eBay for less than $35 shipping dinged me $60 for both. Fronts gonna need some nipple love though..


So there it is so far. I'm still far from being finished. Got a bunch of car stuff I need to build and a few rollcages to finish on customers cars. Im waiting for the kz400 triple and forks I ordered but according to the "usps tracking#" it's at a usps dubbed the "Black Hole" sooo, hopefully I'll get the rear wire on and suspension buttoned up this week. Feel free to make any comments or concerns, hell even suggestions? Just keep in mind that it's far from seeing a road. There's still a bunch of fab work I need/plan to do. Frame still needs gussets, need to mount rearsets, clip ons, shave the top of the triple, make a new indicator dash, finish up the wires(shortened the harness like 2ft almost!?) a long list of "oh boy" ive got. Thanks for your time! I'll update with new info and post pics when there's more progress, hopefully I didn't screw up posting these pics now?


ed

Looks great!

Looking forward to ur progress and checking out ur metal work! Tuned in!

I knew I was gonna need a spacer for the rear so threw it on to see which side(s) and how long. Also was worried if the cush from the mag was gonna cause any problems? Well it didn't, that's good and I needed a spacer on the right side. So pulled out some solid stock of chromoly and turned it on the lathe to get this end result.



Here's the spacer..


I'm thinking of doing the rear brake stay a little different so I can fill in that monster gap or maybe have my license plate mounted off off the spacer? Not sure yet. One thing I'm gonna have to make sure of is that the rear sprocket isn't off center as much as it looks like to me?

Ed

So instead of doing shop work today, I opted to address a much needed clogged shop sink since I found my drain snake in my garage cabinet while looking for a few other things I didn't find..go figure. Anyways....I also did some work on the bike, almost went as far as ordering some tires and tubes (which leads me to a few more questions), but my impulse purchase of the wheel has bitten my ass a little, and it still hasn't let go yet?!.Oh so I got the 400 forks and wheel mocked up now.


Cleaned up a signal light.




Took a chance with using the 440s triple(wasn't sure if the mag and spoked hub were the same width) phew""" I do have the triple on hand for the 400 forks but the 440s top only matches up to the forks leaving the stem off center an 1/8in. or so. Didn't wanna repaint another triple anyways, mostly cause I was out of paint. Since I have a bunch of .090g stainless scraps piled up somewhere, two birds one stone will turn me into Cinderella and clean behind the end-mil and locate my material and bend up a fender brace.
The 440s caliper was a miss in a few ways for me.
1--It didn't fit the bolt pattern on the 400 forks, kinda knew that was gonna be a small set back and was already prepared to remake a new plate. BUT the biggest problem was the caliper woulda been mounted bleeder down and I wasn't in the mood to drill and tap the blank for the valve since I already spent almost an hour trying to figure out the thread pitch on the hub to mount the rotor that wasn't gonna work anyways! I never found out what the threads were, I know they're not 8x125. I now can confirm that I have the 400 front wheel with the wider bolt pattern for the rotor...dammit. lol (still lots to learn in my KZ swappable parts studies.
Now some mild brain picking.
The mag was running a 130/90-16. The bite in my ass as mentioned up there somewhere, is a 1.85x18. I would still like to put a 130 on. What KZ runs a 2.15x18 wire wheel out back that I can use (along with the 440 cush an drum)
What year 400 has the front rotor with the smaller bolt pattern?
I tried a quick search, but my brains still gooey in the morn. lol Thank you much in advance!

ed

Use the 440 forks and axle with the 400 wheel. The 440 forks are 1.75" longer and you want to retain height for turn clearence and keep your geometry closer to original. You need to remove .135" from the 440 axle spacer and also remove .135" from the right fork where the speedo sits. This will roughly center the wheel. to center the 440 caliper remove .23" from the left hand caliper bosses. This will let you use the 440 caliper on the 400 disk.

I would put a straight edge on the sprockets and make sure they are on the same plane. If not it will lead to premature wear.

I know the fat tire look is cool but if you are actually searching for performamce it's better to use the smaller tires. Less rotational mass which will affect accelerate/deceleration and it won't distort the tire profile making the handling sloppy. You don't have to worry about breaking traction with the 30hp or what ever the 440 has at the wheel. I would run a 90/90-18 on the front and. 100/90/18 on the rear or you could go 110 with out it being too bad.

The kz650 uses a 2.15x18" rear rim which is drilled for a drum that pretty close to he 400 drum size. Probably would lace up with no problems

DoctoRot wrote: Use the 440 forks and axle with the 400 wheel. The 440 forks are 1.75" longer and you want to retain height for turn clearence and keep your geometry closer to original. You need to remove .135" from the 440 axle spacer and also remove .135" from the right fork where the speedo sits. This will roughly center the wheel. to center the 440 caliper remove .23" from the left hand caliper bosses. This will let you use the 440 caliper on the 400 disk.

Coincidently, I was just browsing a thread here that you chimed in on with the same problem I just so happen to have? Earlier today I was staring at both pairs of forks thinking to myself "why couldn't I use the 440s with the spoke wheels?" Then googled and came across that thread mentioned. I was getting confused in the explanations, reading it over a few times to try and get a visual in my head, but there was just too much going on already in there (my head) that my patience was running thin, so had to set the ipad down and well. . .eat. Who can think straight on an empty stomach??..lol But now after you gave me a map so to speak, all that confusion I had has gone to me thinking what shop project can I put on the back burner for an hour or 2, so I can whip up a spacer and how to vise the lower forks level on the mill. BUT one of my dilemmas is getting my hands on a 400 rotor with the smaller bolt pattern or just a rotor for that matter? I think I'm gonna hold off shaving the lowers till I get that rotor. From pics on the w, the 400 runs a solid one piece disc? Would be nice to have a drilled rotor, but now that I know getting the caliper behind the fork is indeed doable, that's a BIG PLUS.
Many thanks for this info Doc!! virtual high five!

I know the fat tire look is cool but if you are actually searching for performamce it's better to use the smaller tires. Less rotational mass which will affect accelerate/deceleration and it won't distort the tire profile making the handling sloppy. You don't have to worry about breaking traction with the 30hp or what ever the 440 has at the wheel. I would run a 90/90-18 on the front and. 100/90/18 on the rear or you could go 110 with out it being too bad.

The kz650 uses a 2.15x18" rear rim which is drilled for a drum that pretty close to he 400 drum size. Probably would lace up with no problems.

Think I'm gonna go with the AM26s all around for tires. As for the rear, after doing some more searching and some more reading, I opted to just run the 1.85 ring I have for now. I was thinking maybe I can just relace a 2.15 ring to the 400s hub, but wasn't sure in any way if the hub is wide enough to relace a wider ringer? Of course the easy option would be to get a complete wheel. I'm a lot closer to getting my bike on the road, or at least of the cart, I'm wearing myself out reading. Nows the time to get my ass in gear and start crossing off things on my "list of things left" to do. Thanks again Doc!

ed

Smaller bolt pattern rotor? What is the Diameter of yours?


I have a spare drilled disk. It is worn but there is enough meat to run if cleaned up. It looks like these. Let me know if it'll work for you, make me an offer..
Steve

Looked it up on my purchase history. I bought it last June for $20 delivered. The bolt pattern is the same as this KZ 400 rotor on eBay like this one.


If the off set and diameter are the same, you can have it for what I paid for it.
Steve

swest wrote: Looked it up on my purchase history. I bought it last June for $20 delivered. The bolt pattern is the same as this KZ 400 rotor on eBay like this one.

If the off set and diameter are the same, you can have it for what I paid for it.
Steve

Thank you very much for the offer west, and it's funny cause I think you pulled up the rotor I bought about 2 hours ago? I had some unused shipping credit with a seller. Eta is this Friday. Thanks again..

ed

The 400 uses the same rotor as the rear On the z1r except the z1r is drilled and the bolt holes are drilled out for a m10, the 400 is drilled m8. But otherwise the bolt pattern is the same. You could turn some bushings or turn down some bolts so they have a shoulder or something.
That rotor Steve has is correct for the 400.
I just finished this 440 caliper swap and have been meaning to do a write up since a lot of people face the same problem, because there are no parts available for the 400caliper. Plus just looking at it it seems like a crappy design. I'll point you to it when I finish it so you have a visual of what I'm talkin bout.
-vic

little jealous here, just noticed you've got twin disc on there? Future upgrade. I know wheelies are out the picture, stoppies on the other hand? LOl...jk


ed