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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 10:41 #460625

  • pctech101
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First, ask yourself one pertinent question.... "How many more times do you want to have to risk taking this motor apart to address problems that a competent KZ engine specialist would have caught from the beginning?"
.....
Good luck with this go around ;)


if i was rich and didnt want to learn my motorcycle, we wouldnt be discussing this stuff. i chose to do this as a learning experience, ive learned a lot and i still learn something everyday. i am so greatful for all the guidance, that is why i joined this community. there is so much useful information on this forum, and there are quite a few experienced helpers.

i wish i could afford to spend 1000 more on my bike but i got about 200 left to my name, so shops are out of question right now. 130 for 4 rings, 3 gaskets @ 10 ea, 4 orings@2.50 ea, snap rings?, exhaust gasket for where pipes connect under bike, honing, 2 camshaft bearings... oh yeah, helicoil for cylinder 1 sparkplug.

yep, i think i'm broke...

anyhow, got to figure this valve stuff out so i can get my seals installed and valves back in place. then i can measure and figure out shims. (have yall seen these little thin valve seals that come in gasket set? big difference compared to viton seal)

thanks cavana. your a good guy/kid/person. thanks for your time.
all of ya. thank you!

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 18:44 #460673

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First, ask yourself one pertinent question.... "How many more times do you want to have to risk taking this motor apart to address problems that a competent KZ engine specialist would have caught from the beginning?"
.....
Good luck with this go around ;)


if i was rich and didnt want to learn my motorcycle, we wouldnt be discussing this stuff. i chose to do this as a learning experience, ive learned a lot and i still learn something everyday. i am so greatful for all the guidance, that is why i joined this community. there is so much useful information on this forum, and there are quite a few experienced helpers.

i wish i could afford to spend 1000 more on my bike but i got about 200 left to my name, so shops are out of question right now. 130 for 4 rings, 3 gaskets @ 10 ea, 4 orings@2.50 ea, snap rings?, exhaust gasket for where pipes connect under bike, honing, 2 camshaft bearings... oh yeah, helicoil for cylinder 1 sparkplug.

yep, i think i'm broke...

anyhow, got to figure this valve stuff out so i can get my seals installed and valves back in place. then i can measure and figure out shims. (have yall seen these little thin valve seals that come in gasket set? big difference compared to viton seal)

thanks cavana. your a good guy/kid/person. thanks for your time.
all of ya. thank you!



Broke is a common scenario. No shame in that. Where the shame would be is in putting it all back together for the second time and having it smoke again ;) I hate to see money thrown away.

The guides could be checked by fabricating a vacuum source and putting some oil around them. The vacuum source should be able to pull at leaset 7"Hg to simulate live engine condition.

At the very least, if you do assemble it without assurance the guides are correctly fitting, I would install O-Rings at the top of the guide where it seats in the tappet bore. The O-Rings would need be of sufficient size that the spring seat collar held them fast and also tightly seal around the top of the guide.

Since funds are low & you're going to take the head apart to install new valve seals, the O-Rings won't add significantly to the budget. IT IS A BAND_AID at best but better than nothing :)

There are essentially 2 specific ways of doing things. The RIGHT WAY or the WRONG WAY. Any measure in between is an effort to rig something either because of a lack of patience or money. Anything in between generally eases the current situation but costs more in the long run.
:)

I'm not here to bust your balls kid.... Only to try to keep you from another exercise in futility.

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Last edit: by cavanaughracing.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 19:53 #460681

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i know youre guiding me and i am thankful for your time and knowledge. trust me, i dont want to have any issues when she goes back together.
I learned a hard lesson with the rings. if she'll get me home after my "cheap" repair, i am good. im slowly replacing her stuff as i learn about her. shes my first and i dont like doing half a$$ work. i am a pefectionist.
i will post more as i progress. thanks!

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 03 Jul 2011 05:11 #460714

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...don't want to have any issues when she goes back together....

Would do some forum searches for tips and info about dealing with the base gasket (such as using a scotch-pad type wheel chucked in a hand-held drill) and installing the jugs.

When removing the old base gasket, be careful to avoid getting foreign material into the crankcase.

Some folks are quite adept at installing the jugs over the pistons by using chop sticks or Popsicle sticks to ease the rings inside the cylinders.

Another reportedly successful method to temporarily compress and hold the rings onto the pistons while inserting them into the jugs is by using a section of metal strapping strip held around the rings with a nylon tie wrap, all of which slides down and away as the pistons enter the cylinders.

Then snip the tie wrap and remove it along with the metal strip, being careful not to drop any of this stuff into the crankcase.

Instead of the metal strip, others have successfully used a section of aluminum can, and some employ hose clamps rather than tie wraps.

Past threads also include info about using wood slats to hold the pistons in upright position while lowering the jugs.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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Last edit: by Patton.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 03 Jul 2011 08:50 #460719

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i know youre guiding me and i am thankful for your time and knowledge. trust me, i dont want to have any issues when she goes back together.
I learned a hard lesson with the rings. if she'll get me home after my "cheap" repair, i am good. im slowly replacing her stuff as i learn about her. shes my first and i dont like doing half a$$ work. i am a pefectionist.
i will post more as i progress. thanks!


Grab yourself a valve spring compressor. There's a nice one on Ebay for under $40
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Last edit: by cavanaughracing.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 03 Jul 2011 09:18 #460720

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others have successfully used a section of aluminum can, and some employ hose clamps rather than tie wraps.

Good Fortune! :)


I was going to try soda can with zip ties this go around, and have a helper so i can safely guide it back together

Grab yourself a valve spring compressor. There's a nice one on Ebay for under $40


I went to home depot and bought a $15 8" C-Clamp.
My father had an O2 sensor socket (has window).
Between the 2 i have successful removed the valves, and tested putting valves back in, works perfect.

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 03 Jul 2011 09:37 #460721

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Instead of the metal strip, others have successfully used a section of aluminum can, and some employ hose clamps rather than tie wraps.


Big beer can ,large hose clamp and some KY (jk engine oil :P) worked REALLLLY well for me... i could not even believe how easy it was !
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe
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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 03 Jul 2011 09:43 #460722

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...Grab yourself a valve spring compressor. There's a nice one on Ebay for under $40


Not to e-bay,
Can't go there;
Said he wants
a cheap repair;

Perfection wanted,
No half a$$,
On this first love,
His comely lass;

A valve compressor,
For this steed,
Sorely needed,
Yes indeed;

The answer lay,
Within here true,
Just flipped on back,
And read page two.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
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Last edit: by Patton.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 03 Jul 2011 10:07 #460725

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Am i missing something on base gasket? Last time i scraped it off, them scrubbed with scotchpad with parts cleaner. Took a while but i got it. Just looked at base and the new gasket i put on isnt stuck to engine that much, thank heavens. i think i spent probably of 6 hrs the first time scraping and scrubbing, not including cleaning carbon off pistons. very time consuming. glad you reminded me about gaskets, last time i waited until i was ready to put together, then realized i had quite a bit of scraping to do still. this time i will get it knocked out over this weekend/holiday... yippeeee ;)

Question.
When I install valve seals, the lower ring on seal just goes down till it pops in to groove on guide, correct?


And yes, i remember all those pics of valve compressors. Why i went with c clamp. I was going to use pvc for opening but dad said hold on, and he pulled out his O2 sensor sockets. Between the two i have compressed the springs and gotten keepers out.

Youtube vids on removing keepers made figuring it out easy. Waiting on O-rings to reassemble valves. Then i can put cam.s on and measure my valve clearance so i can get shims when i order parts. Dad found me another feeler gauge that starts at .002

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Last edit: by pctech101. Reason: retarted and wanted to say more

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 03 Jul 2011 16:43 #460774

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All valve clearances are within spec... .05 - .15mm

Happy for no expense needed for shims

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 03 Jul 2011 18:57 #460793

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There's a thing!!!!!! Tip for the future, leave the carbon on the piston crowns. Just a scrape of the loose stuff is enough. Removing it can cause excess smoke too as it burns itself back on. Thats another tip from when I was an apprentice.
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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 04 Jul 2011 01:48 #460875

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ive seen and done the valve spring replacement trick on ohv v8 motors before ,but ive never seen how its possible on a motorcycle motor like a big kaw anyway.
if you dont have a spring compressor handy you can do the same thing with a drill press and a couple of deep sockets with one of them being slotted.
as far as guides being worn its really simple to check with the valve stem cleaned up stick 3/4 back into the guide and try wiggling it side to side,i you can feel it move at all its time for guides.
posting from deep under a non-descript barn in an undisclosed location southwest of Omaha.

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