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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 25 Jun 2011 22:30 #459365

  • pctech101
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Got an 83 kz1100-L1
Tore her down and put new rings, new cam chain & guides, had valve job done @ machine shop. I supplied valve seals from my gasket set.
Problem. 200+ miles since reassembled. Burns quart of oil in 50+ miles. Fouls #1 sparkplug about every 50 miles. Plugs 1,2,3 all show signs of burning oil, 4 is clean. Compression is 150 on all 4. Havent done leak down, cant afford right now.
All the reading i have done leads me to believe it was those damn valve seals from gasket set. I have ordered Vitons. I have read through out many forums that you can use air to keep valves up, and replace seals without pulling head. Can it be done without air, using rope threaded through spark hole and turning to TDC or something similar? Any tips and woes?

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 25 Jun 2011 22:35 #459366

  • MFolks
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If Larry Cavan isn't too busy and sees this, he might offer advice.
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 25 Jun 2011 23:16 #459371

  • Patton
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Imperfect valve seals often result in more exhaust smoke before the engine attains normal operating temperature and less exhaust smoke at normal operating temperature.

Could be wrong, but thinking imperfect valve seals wouldn't cause burning a quart of oil every 50 miles.

A leak down test likely won't diagnose broken or improperly installed oil rings, which might be causing the reported issues.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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Last edit: by Patton.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 00:06 #459379

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Lets entertain my grand lure that it is crapy valve seals that are the problem.

She love to smoke during engine braking/downshifting, at idle at red light and you roll throttle a couple times. She'll idle and not smoke. She'll idle and barely smoke. Drive the dogsh!t out of her up to 100Mph, doesnt smoke to much. Just the other day when she burnt a quart in about 50miles, she started smoking heavily while running 75, dropped speed to 60, didnt change much, got to light, started up again and she didnt smoke that heavily again. Nothing is static except that she burns oil. She smokes how she wants to. If it was oil rings, would there not be a more uniform burning going on?

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 03:54 #459395

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Sounds like it might be pulling oil down the outside of the intake guides.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 04:14 #459398

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Sounds like it might be pulling oil down the outside of the intake guides.


Now I know your old, and it's late, but how is that possible o mysterious one? :blink:

Are you saying without saying, in some form of riddle, the guide is loose or cracked or what??

Say it mann sayy it!

Can we get a drum roll for Jay? bbbbbbbbb booom!

Thank you, Thank you

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 09:46 #459412

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Yes you can change the seals out without pulling the head, if you have the correct tools. Depending on whether or not you have the right kind of spring compressor. Something like this:
cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Universal-OHC-OH...&hash=item3a6758443d
That much consumption sounds more like a oil ring issue, like Patton said.
If you need to buy another spring compressor, better to just take off the head, so then you can be ready to pull the cylinders off when the valve seals look OK. You can still fit the Teflon ones then.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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Last edit: by Motor Head.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 15:01 #459469

  • ELCouz
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Tore her down and put new rings, new cam chain & guides, had valve job done @ machine shop. I supplied valve seals from my gasket set.
Problem. 200+ miles since reassembled. Burns quart of oil in 50+ miles.


Looks like somebody pinched the very thin and delicate oil rings AND/OR misaligned the oil rings :whistle:

btw, did you get the cylinders honed when put the new rings ?

Maybe you rings never seated properly...possibly out of specs cylinders ?

Hope this helps!

regards,
laurent


EDIT: don't forget this





:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe
Attachments:

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Last edit: by ELCouz.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 15:13 #459472

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Imperfect valve seals often result in more exhaust smoke before the engine attains normal operating temperature and less exhaust smoke at normal operating temperature.

Could be wrong, but thinking imperfect valve seals wouldn't cause burning a quart of oil every 50 miles.

You are correct. On my 750, I had one seal so bad it had torn the top of the seal completely away. It did foul the plug, but very little oil consumption.

I would bet on a damaged/broken/collapsed ring.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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Last edit: by bountyhunter.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 15:22 #459476

  • ELCouz
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Imperfect valve seals


chance that you are getting brand new seals with imperfection are low!

/me thinks butched valve job! :dry:

Maybe an incorrectly installed seals or even broken or missing valve seals could cause to leaks and suck oil around the valve guide a lot !

Beside that you could have a cracked head (oil channel seepage)or bad rings ...

i think thats it!
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Last edit: by ELCouz.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 15:58 #459482

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Well i personally dont have a clue.
Yes the cylinders were honed for new rings.
I have not checked/adjusted valve clearance yet, can that let it burn oil too?
It wasnt burning anything before teardown so i highly doubt my head has a crack.

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 16:02 #459484

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I have not checked/adjusted valve clearance yet, can that let it burn oil too?


No but too much clearance cam lobe will slap the valve (noise and possibly pounding the valve seat which is not good) and not enough clearance will make the valve not closing properly (can also overheat the valves)

For me i would take the time and tore down the engine again to check everything again because its not normal something f**ked up... patience is a virtue i've read that somewhere :)
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Last edit: by ELCouz.
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