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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 01 Jul 2011 14:45 #460484

  • pctech101
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look at picture of piston. you can see the oil rings 123 all dont have the butting lip on one side.

Now please tell me there is a source to get 3 oil rings for decent price and where that source may be.

I just want to thank yall. Appreciate all yalls help. Yall know yalls stuff.

Just upped pic of ring for heck of it

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 01 Jul 2011 19:17 #460529

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any of yall have recommendations on how i can get just oil rings cheaply, or should i see if i still have my old ones?

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 01 Jul 2011 19:23 #460532

  • ELCouz
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I think they only comes in ring kit...

Ask your kawa dealer about that...

check this out.... www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=192

i think its cheaper than buying from the dealer.

Quote from ELCouz

...Bets are open for problem is underneat


Why nobody bet on this????.... i could have made money and fix my darn motorcycle :P
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Last edit: by ELCouz.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 01 Jul 2011 20:52 #460544

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anyone know what the piston size is and how big the gap is for oil ring?

my book in wear limits states:
Oil groove width .103in
Piston OD: 2.846

Is this what i need to try to find a ring?

i do have 3 of my old oil rings, the ones that suppose to but together. what is the opinion on reusing them?

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 01 Jul 2011 21:30 #460552

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anyone know what the piston size is and how big the gap is for oil ring?


Should be 72.5 mm bore if larger than that you don't have stock pistons

how big the gap is for oil ring


I don't have access to a KZ1000 FSM...sorry i can't help you with these specs (vary by models)

i do have 3 of my old oil rings, the ones that suppose to but together. what is the opinion on reusing them?

I would not recommend doing that unless you are ready to pull apart the engine again few miles later in case something is wrong again... piston rings are usually throw away stuff (single use)

If you want a sex analogy...piston rings are like condoms... you can reuse them but you might run into trouble later ;)

Since the head is off...looks for damage on pistons and cylinder wall (turn the crankshaft while pulling taunt the cam chain to reveal cylinder wall)... scratch on wall is no good for oil consumption.

After checking with dealer ... kawasaki makes them only in kits it means you get compression rings and oil rings...

Buy from z1enterprises its cheaper...part you are looking for anyway is #13008-5055 RING-SET-PISTON,STD

If you have oversized pistons you need different ring kit please double check before buying or you will have excessive ring gap!
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Last edit: by ELCouz.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 01 Jul 2011 23:14 #460574

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Well it is great to see you got it apart. That oil ring expander, you must have had some trouble when the block went on. I would think a expander to break like that, the oil ring is probably bent as well. ELCouz is right, as far as I know all the parts houses would have rings as a set either for 1 piston, or for all 4. Oil rings by themselves would be very hard to source. Better to get fresh for any cylinder you have doubts about, might be all 4. Better now than be in there again. Don't forget to measure your valve clearance and order shims as well if needed. On size, you should be able to clean the crud off the top of the piston. If oversize it should be stamped as such. Otherwise should be STD but only measuring will tell you. You could take it to be checked, the pistons and cylinders. Or maybe your Dad has a set of Mic's, and bore gauge? He should have some different feeler gauges?
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 00:11 #460581

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Well it is great to see you got it apart. That oil ring expander, you must have had some trouble when the block went on. I would think a expander to break like that, the oil ring is probably bent as well.

yeah, if the tabs were on there when i installed oil rings, i might know exactly how they got broke off. when i originally put rings on it and went to put it together the jugs didnt slide into the pistons easily, my dad tapped a wood block on cylinders forcing cylinders down. after he got piston 2 wedged into cylinder 2, i through a fit. being my first time doing this kind of internal work, i didnt second guess him til he rounded the cotter pin on the mechanical advance trying to force pistons into moving into cylinders. i told him at that point we were done. i went back with a friend and we got the piston freed. i went back after i had cylinder honed again because the cylinder was marred by the little delicate thin oil ring. luckily it is lower than the stroke of the piston. anyhow, when i reassembled it, it was just me, balancing the jugs as i let it down helping the rings into the cylinders. reassembled and here we are 200+ miles afterwards.

Better to get fresh for any cylinder you have doubts about, might be all 4. Better now than be in there again.

Well 123 all have damaged oil ring so thats 3 sets. i see nothing wrong with 4.
Question, do i need to have cylinders honed again when just replacing oil rings?

Don't forget to measure your valve clearance and order shims as well if needed.

i popped valve 1 intake off. have to figure out how to install new valve stem seals and get valves reinstalled. i used socket with magnet in end and a hammer to get valve 1 out. not sure how you put back in(get valve keepers back in place). please suggest what i need to do to install valve stem seals and valves and what tools i should need?

On size, you should be able to clean the crud off the top of the piston. If oversize it should be stamped as such. Otherwise should be STD but only measuring will tell you. You could take it to be checked, the pistons and cylinders. Or maybe your Dad has a set of Mic's, and bore gauge? He should have some different feeler gauges?

I believe it is stock piston, if it wasnt and i put standard rings on it number 4 would of smoked or had low compression, correct? dad doesnt have his toolbox accessible right now. he can borrow a tool for me sometimes, just have to know what it is called. he loaned me some feelers to use but lowest feeler is .005 and i need to measure from .002.

i dont want to have anymore mistakes. all of yalls suggestions are appreciated and desired.
i want my baby running good.

help me make sure i am getting all parts i need, please.
3 sets of standard rings, 8 piston snap rings, jugs gasket, head gasket, 4 cylinder head o-rings(for gallies. yall recommend a source for these), shims, valve cover gasket.
anything else yall recommend?

thanks for yalls help so far.

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 01:23 #460588

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[/quote]Well 123 all have damaged oil ring so thats 3 sets. i see nothing wrong with 4.
Question, do i need to have cylinders honed again when just replacing oil rings?[/quote]

As long as you can still see the crosshatch patern in the cylinders and there is no abnormal vertical scratches you should be fine to go back together with out honeing again.
Kenny Hicks
74 Honda CB550
75 Honda CB360 (runs and rides good but not a show bike)
77 KZ650B1 (Runs Great, but needs painted and a little work.)

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 05:30 #460603

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One golden rule that I was taught when doing my apprenticeship, 'If it wasn't built by someone using a hammer, you don't need one either!'

Try and start all the pistons in the bores and then a gentle tapping down by hand should have them on, if it's stuck you can't force it, it means it's not square or a ring is getting trapped. Better to use an hour geting them on than five hours taking it all to bits again.

Hope all goes well now you've got to the bottom of it.
2004 Harley Davidson Softail
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1982 KZ1100 A2
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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 09:14 #460611

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...123 all have damaged oil ring so that's 3 sets. i see nothing wrong with 4....

Would order full set (four) of rings from Z1 Enterprises.
Allows a spare in case of another boo-boo.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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Last edit: by Patton.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 10:06 #460616

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Alright.... I've sat back and read this thread from the beginning. EVERYBODY OUT OF THE POOL for a minute....It's time to separate FACT from FICTION :whistle:

First, ask yourself one pertinent question.... "How many more times do you want to have to risk taking this motor apart to address problems that a competent KZ engine specialist would have caught from the beginning?"

Just as I and a few other stated from the start, the problem IS the oil rings. However, since this is an 83 J head and since you did find plenty of oil in some of the ports, the smart move is to address the possible sloppy valve guide issue. YOU CAN'T do that by trying to wiggle the guides with your fingers!!

Don't be foolish about the bores. At least, run a ball hone through the bores to assure a good fresh cross hatch pattern. Then wash it properly with hot soapy water and a good brush. A common toilet brush works great for getting the fine powdery grit out of the bores with good hot soapy water.

Since you're going to be buying at least 3 sets of rings, get 4 and install all new rings on the pistons...all of them.

If your machine shop doesn't know about the loose guide problem with J heads, enlighten them or send the head to someone who knows Kawasaki heads. Doesn't mean I want to do it...I've got plenty of work...

Done correctly, the head should have good tight fitting guides in the bores and the valve installed heights will be at 1.475 - 1.480". That puts you in the middle of the shim range.

Lastly... with the proper specs at hand and the proper tools to measure installed height with, a cylinder head specialist can setup the head without the cams. The base circle of the cams needs to be known. If they're stock KZ1100 cams, that's 1.110".

In your situation, all the shop needs to know are 4 things to do it correctly.

1 - there were some poor fitting valve guide bores in some J heads.
2 - The valves can be tipped right down flush with the top of the keepers.
3 - The installed height of the valves [int. & exh] is 1.475"
4 - If needed, over size guides are available.

Good luck with this go around ;)

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 02 Jul 2011 10:12 #460617

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One golden rule that I was taught when doing my apprenticeship, 'If it wasn't built by someone using a hammer, you don't need one either!'

Try and start all the pistons in the bores and then a gentle tapping down by hand should have them on, if it's stuck you can't force it, it means it's not square or a ring is getting trapped. Better to use an hour geting them on than five hours taking it all to bits again.


After thinking through the steps my father had taken, it didnt seem logical. I honestly didnt have a clue during the process because ive never gone that far in an engine. ive replaced a head on cars couple times, but nothing internal. live and learn.

trust me, i am taking my time putting her back together. i cannot afford another ring job or anything else. not sure i can afford what i need to put her back together.

i called a cycle shop yesterday for a quote to install my new viton valve stem seals and was told 140 for labor. i can in no way form or fashion afford that. what do i need to do them myself? i assume a valve spring compressor is how you put valve keepers back in place. how do the valve stem seals go in (i think i read something about a 10m socket)? how do you know when its seated (does it pop/click, or just when it bottoms out)?

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