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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 16:02 #460157

  • Joe Fabulous
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Thats just the extra figure being used, it's just an extra decimal unit.

.006 is the imperial version (.006 thou of an inch)

.152 is the metric

You will need thinner ones and a full range of feelers really if you intend to measure the actual gaps and re-shim.

To be honest, shimming isn't really difficult but if you are unsure now of feeler gauge sizes then it probably isn't a job you should take on. It should also be the last job done when the head is being rebuilt, if you have to lap in the valves etc that will alter the gap too.

If you want to do it I would get someone that's done it before to go through it with you as you do it, at least then you'll know for next time. It doesn't sound though like you have the right feelers to get it done.
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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 16:08 #460159

  • Patton
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Imo, valve clearance is here unrelated to the reported excessive oil consumption.
Nor are the bore measurements or piston measurements or other measurements.

Would consider as a likely probability that the primary mis-step in this top-end job was incorrect fitment of the oil rings as the cylinders were being slid into place over the pistons.

Good Fortune! :)
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KZ900 LTD

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 16:15 #460160

  • pctech101
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Imo, valve clearance is here unrelated to the reported excessive oil consumption.
Nor are the bore measurements or piston measurements or other measurements.

Would consider as a likely probability that the primary mis-step in this top-end job was incorrect fitment of the oil rings as the cylinders were being slid into place over the pistons.

Good Fortune! :)


so does that mean quit worrying about that stuff, and just tear it down and look?

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 16:46 #460166

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Imo, valve clearance is here unrelated to the reported excessive oil consumption.
Nor are the bore measurements or piston measurements or other measurements.

Would consider as a likely probability that the primary mis-step in this top-end job was incorrect fitment of the oil rings as the cylinders were being slid into place over the pistons.

Good Fortune! :)


so does that mean quit worrying about that stuff, and just tear it down and look?


Yes.
Don't mess with the valves.
Remove the head.
Don't mess with the valves.
Don't measure anything.
Remove the cylinders.
Don't measure anything.
Inspect oil rings and replace any damaged oil ring.
Replace base gasket (preferable).
Reassemble, being careful to assure correct fitment of the oil rings as the cylinders are being slid into place over the pistons.
Replace head gasket (preferable).
Replace the head.
Test run to attain normal operating temperature.
Allow engine to cool overnight.
Re-torque the head.

Good Fortune! :)
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KZ900 LTD

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Last edit: by Patton.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 17:15 #460168

  • ELCouz
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Sorry Patton but this one is critical for oil consumption !

Nor are the bore measurements or piston measurements or other measurements.


Excessive ring gap / pinched delicate oil rings / overlapped oil expander... means smokes ftw!

Don't you find....

150 is low for new «seated» rings !?? (200+ miles since reassembled) Also valve job as been done!

120 psi is minimum compression

...Bets are open for problem is underneat :)
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Last edit: by ELCouz.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 19:06 #460176

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...Bets are open for problem is underneat :)


I am assuming if thats the case we will see it once jugs are off...
i will tear her down again to the pistons. take pics, get lots of comments hopefuly. appears my extension walked off. i will finish tear down tomorrow if weather doesnt rain.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 29 Jun 2011 23:33 #460217

  • Motor Head
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OK I've got to ask, was it the shop who did the valve work, also set the valve clearances? Did you take them the complete head with camshafts? You really need to but a feeler gauge that goes lower in size. Down to .002" of an Inch. Here is the Centech from China Tools: www.harborfreight.com/32-piece-sae-metri...ler-gauge-32214.html
Find that and the wayward socket extension, and carefully pull it back apart.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 30 Jun 2011 00:05 #460222

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OK I've got to ask, was it the shop who did the valve work, also set the valve clearances? Did you take them the complete head with camshafts?


i took head in without camshafts mounted. who set valve clearance when where? according to book i need to measure and order new shims accordingly. i thought. look i took head to tidmores in tyler tx. i wanted stuff mic'd, camshafts, etc. i wanted to m.ake sure things were in spec with book. my camshaft lobes are within spec, everything else is a pipe dream. i didnt know what to ask for exactly and i was left with that. so i really have no clue what was done to my head, besides a broken exhaust stud removed and replaced. i can see that. i took camshafts home with me because they didnt need them.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 30 Jun 2011 00:21 #460225

  • Motor Head
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That sir is very bad news, for you, I'm sorry to say. the camshafts should be with the machine shop, so that valve clearance can be set. Now it doesn't sound like this was done at all. You don't have the correct feeler gauge to measure them, right? So did you just reinstall the cams, without checking clearance? I hope not. If so you Definitely need to do so. Do this before pulling it apart. You may take measurements and find that they are so tight you can't get any feeler gauge in between the cam and lifter. So maybe you can move a few shims around, to get some of them right. Then order a few, that you need. Z1 ships the same day, Z1enterprises.com use them as they will get you the correct parts quickly at a very fair price.
I don't know if there is any kind hearted KZR members in your area who might have some 29 shims. But you can change them without removing the cams with a $10 special tool. Otherwise you would try prying down on the edge of the bucket/ tappet with a bar to get the shim out. Now you got me wondering plenty about your machine shop choice. Did they install the valve stem seals that you took to them? Maybe worth a peek, take out 1 cam, probably the Intake, and and take 1 set of keepers off. You can do this by holding the valve still with some soft cotton rope in the cylinder and piston pushed up against it. Then take a socket the right size, wear safety glasses, give the socket a sharp rap with a hammer. the keepers will poop out, preferably into the socket. Then you can remove the valve springs and look for the seal.
I really feel for you man, nothing like paying for a service and finding it wasn't done correctly. You should get the head back with clearances all set, just some final cleaning and torque it down. Shame really.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 30 Jun 2011 00:39 #460230

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i took head in without camshafts mounted....... i took camshafts home with me because they didn't need them.


They did a valve job and didn't need your cams?? Was this a place that normally works on bikes or some Buick dealership? I could be wrong, but I believe the shop needs to install the valves, shims, and cams so they can see if the valve stems need to be tipped. Shops that specialize in motorcycles should set up the head with the correct shims so you can install it on the bike without a lot of trouble. I wonder what other shortcuts they took? Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 30 Jun 2011 00:59 #460233

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they specialize in automotive. not a motorcycle place. my dad had me thinking that they could do a valve job on my kaw. apparently they are worlds apart in reality. starting to believe a mechanic isnt good across all engines. my dad is a master diesel mechanic, i thought his knowledge would help me some. apparently i should of took the whole motorcycle to a motorcycle shop. i was wanting to build memories with my old man rebuilding my bike. instead it has been a negative experience.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 30 Jun 2011 01:04 #460234

  • Motor Head
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Well don't let it get to you, it can be fixed. Just get in there and check it. Maybe Dad can hangout and give some support. But don't let him get any diesel near the thing, it will stink forever. I call Diesels, "Rattle Clank Stanks", from my Cummings years. Stinking dirty things to work on. I prefer Gasoline to that smelly diesel.
Anyway just sleep on it tonight and get back to it tomorrow when you get to it. One thing about machinery, it will be there waiting when you get to it.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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