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. 26 Jun 2011 21:35 #459555

  • KZ250LTD
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79 KZ1000ST
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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 21:45 #459557

  • cavanaughracing
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I just noticed that's an 83 model.

With some J heads, the valve guide fit wasn't the best. They sometimes were loose. Most times, you can install new standard sized guides without any problems. However, on occasion, an oversize guide is required because of the loose fit.

Last one I had like that come through the shop, I noticed it when the guide installed with very little resistance. I replaced them with OS guides.

Now Kawasaki was aware of the problem but didn't make a public notice of it. They used to have us install an o-ring around the the top of the guide. The spring seat would hold it down in place. This was not ever done under warranty as a warranty issue. However, if the engine happened to be apart for a head gasket, porous block replacement...etc. I would get authorization to replace the valve seals and install those O-rings.

I'm not saying that's your problem but it's something to make note of.

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Last edit: by cavanaughracing.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 21:59 #459561

  • pctech101
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i guess it was a bad idea letting someone else do the work. i dont know what guides feel like. ive never disassembled a valve. i dont know what things are suppose to look like or not look like.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 22:16 #459562

  • ELCouz
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The guy who did the valve job for you had experience in motorcycle engine ?
Or it was a car engine shop ?

When i was looking for a good shop... i request some «portfolio» to know that the guy doesn't bullshit me .... or i do some research if it is a big company...

If possible takes picture... videos anything that could help us visually !

By text sometime it's hard! Picture is worth a thousand words ! (i've read that somewhere :P )

regards,
laurent
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 22:55 #459569

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automotive work is their main work. my dad is friends with the owner of the business. i was led to believe that they could do the work properly. i told them i wanted a "valve job", new exhaust bolt on #3 (extraction and replacement), sparkplug hole # 3 threads repaired. i asked the tech what he needed me to get, he told me valve stem seals, i gave him the ones from my gasket set and a copy of wear limits from clymer. get head back a week later. was excited to get her back together and missed that sparkplug 3 wasnt repaired.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 23:18 #459574

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KZ Rage is right on this! Never use synthetic oil to break-in an engine! In many engine machine shop this will void warranty on the job done to your engine! (including my place i get my engines done!)

Use old regular dino oil !

IMHO, It's a myth that just won't die:





www.roadcarvin.com/tech/synthetic-oil-during-engine-break-in

What do the oil manufacturers say?

Mobil

Myth:

You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1.
Reality:

You can start using Mobil 1 in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:

Acura RDX
Aston Martin
All Bentley Vehicles
All Cadillac Vehicles
Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
Chrysler 300C SRT-8
Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi Evolution
Pontiac Solstice GXP
All Porsche Vehicles
Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
Viper SRT-10

One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

- www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx


other refs:

www.bamph.com/rmh/oilmyths.htm

www.autocarepronews.com/Article/41506/pe...o_synthetic_oil.aspx

www.supplylink.com/article/fleet-synthetic-oil


texlube.com/oilmyths.htm

www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.d...70&contentId=7007980
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 23:22 #459575

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Running regular car 10/40


The majority of regular automotive oil has energy preserving additives in it which will coat your clutch plates and cause your clutch to slip. Go to any brand bike shop and buy motorcycle 10w40 for $5-6 a litre

You don't have to run bike oil unless you just have money to burn. I have run car oil in my KZ-750 for 32 years (since new). You just need to avoid all oils marked "energy conserving" on the label as those have the friction reducers. Most 5-30 and 10-30 have this (avoid them), most (if not all) 10-40 and 20-50 oils do NOT have friction reducers and are safe to use.

The most dangerous aspect of all modern oil is that ZDDP has been removed from any oil labeled SM or SN service class, and engines with overhead cams and flat tappet lifters need this additive. It can be added using Redline Break-in additive or ZDDPlus. IMHO, you shouldn't run oil without sufficient ZDDP in an older bike or car.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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. 26 Jun 2011 23:41 #459580

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 27 Jun 2011 02:01 #459603

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I just noticed that's an 83 model.

With some J heads, the valve guide fit wasn't the best. They sometimes were loose. Most times, you can install new standard sized guides without any problems. However, on occasion, an oversize guide is required because of the loose fit.

Last one I had like that come through the shop, I noticed it when the guide installed with very little resistance. I replaced them with OS guides.

Now Kawasaki was aware of the problem but didn't make a public notice of it. They used to have us install an o-ring around the the top of the guide. The spring seat would hold it down in place. This was not ever done under warranty as a warranty issue. However, if the engine happened to be apart for a head gasket, porous block replacement...etc. I would get authorization to replace the valve seals and install those O-rings.

I'm not saying that's your problem but it's something to make note of.


NADS read this

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 27 Jun 2011 04:04 #459618

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I just noticed that's an 83 model.

With some J heads, the valve guide fit wasn't the best. They sometimes were loose. Most times, you can install new standard sized guides without any problems. However, on occasion, an oversize guide is required because of the loose fit.

Last one I had like that come through the shop, I noticed it when the guide installed with very little resistance. I replaced them with OS guides.

Now Kawasaki was aware of the problem but didn't make a public notice of it. They used to have us install an o-ring around the the top of the guide. The spring seat would hold it down in place. This was not ever done under warranty as a warranty issue. However, if the engine happened to be apart for a head gasket, porous block replacement...etc. I would get authorization to replace the valve seals and install those O-rings.

I'm not saying that's your problem but it's something to make note of.


NADS read this


Ahh the old 83 story, good one! I know the story since I had a guide come out that I put in.

Valve seals in the kit are junk, they pull apart like bubble gum. If it was my bike I'd take out the cams and buckets and visually inspect the valve seals and take it from there. Remove the carbs and peek into the port? Shine a light into the plug hole and look for a carboned valve. Follow the yellow brick road! I hope someone told you it is easy to replace guide seals with the head on. Cuz it is.

If you don't find the problem in the head, you'll need to take the cylinder to the a shop and have the bores measured. This takes about one minute of the guy is fast and should not cost hardly a thing.

But I live in nd so....

Check for oil leaking below the tensioner and on the top of the case. It runs down through a hole and exits on the left side of the bike . O ring around clutch pusher bar could be checked too.

I'm thinking larry is on track here, once you remove a guide another one of the same size is not usaully going to go in tight, you can feel this as you install them. The person who did it knows.

A slight pressure fit is not enough, they need to be solid, (not super tight) just solid giong in. All the way to the bottoming. I would think you need at least .002 oversize guides and without them oucha wowa. Too loose for my blood. It's not the end of the world. If it happens you have to take off the head then I would install a driver into each guide and tap it with a hammer so you know they are tight in there. If they move easy they WIL come out. Alot of aluminum gets moved right out of those guide holes when old guides are removed, ask anyone and everyone who's done it. Some alot, some a little. I just go by feel when I put them back in.

Guides can be removed and peened on top a vise or bench. This has to be done very conserative or you'll get it way too big and forcing it in after that is more trouble yet.

Just saying you don't have to get new guides but the seats will need cutting again after they are back in.

Wish I was there to help. I know what it's like having no money and noone with any experience around to count on doing these things. Just take your time and take it apart piece at a time and you'll see what's happening, learn alot.

I just put my engine back together, then had a cam chain galley leak. I took the head off and every cylinder is burning oil, the seals when I put them on were pathetic. They were new, but they were like mush. Two of them tore aprt just pushing them on and one tore when the valve pushed through it. BUT.

I also used my old rings from a 903 block I had bored ( they cave man'd it) I put them in a stock 1015cc block that had 25thou on the engine. They were in good shape.

So I don't know where the oil is going but there's none on the ground! :woohoo:

It burn alot of oil, about the rate yours is. But BOY is mine FAST! :cheer:

I like to hang out with people who have oil. :P I'll see soon wether it's gonna get better on the oil burning, it may have already slowed down

You gotta be more like me, I just don't care. :huh: :dry:

If I didn't want it to burn oil I would have set it up that way. But those seals man are garbage.

I wouldn't bet the farm you won't lose your oil through bad seals I've seen this before. Oil doesn't magically stay on top the motor when there's a hole you can see daylight through between the seal and the valve. And the suction on the intake side. Take a look at the intake valves through the plug holes and look for carbon. That one though is going to mean tearing it down. That's the leaker or loose guide or torn seal or what have ya.

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Last edit: by nads.com.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 27 Jun 2011 12:43 #459673

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Well, after all this reading i just get more confused. i can take my bike up to the shop that did my valves and use their air to compress air in cylinders and try to get cylinder 1 seals out without pulling head. if seals seem okay and guide is firm then i guess i should pull down and do rings again, correct?

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 27 Jun 2011 12:55 #459675

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Got an 83 kz1100-L1
...have read through out many forums that you can use air to keep valves up, and replace seals without pulling head. Can it be done without air, using rope threaded through spark hole and turning to TDC or something similar?....

The rope method won't require an air compressor or the fitting that screws into the spark plug hole.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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Last edit: by Patton.
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