Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head

my other vehicle is a vw beetle tdi. i cant really smell diesel but my friend wont ride in car because diesel smell bother him.

riding either one get me 34 in city.

I thought you might use this link to down load a copy of the Factory Service Manual. While the clymer does have a lot of info, it is nowhere near as detailed as the Kawasaki manual. Down load and read through the engine section.
If you don't have one yet you can download the FSM here: www.kz1000r.com/downloads/Kawasaki%20KZ1...Service%20Manual.pdf
If needed go to a computer and not a Iphone, then you can save it, then open and print as you need certain pages. It will give you every bit of info for doing your top end, very through.

pctech101 wrote: Got an 83 kz1100-L1
Tore her down and put new rings, new cam chain & guides, had valve job done @ machine shop. I supplied valve seals from my gasket set.
Problem. 200+ miles since reassembled. Burns quart of oil in 50+ miles. Fouls #1 sparkplug about every 50 miles. Plugs 1,2,3 all show signs of burning oil, 4 is clean. Compression is 150 on all 4. Havent done leak down, cant afford right now....

Regardless of excessive oil consumption with resultant plug fouling, and given no reported history of running on less that four cylinders or other performance issues, and given even compression figures on an engine that continues to perform upon attaining normal operating temperature (i.e., doesn't quit running when it heats up), such conditions suggest that valve clearance and valve function are at least minimally sufficient.

Insufficient valve clearance alone does not cause excessive oil consumption.
Typically, insufficient valve clearance results in loss of combustion within a cylinder, especially after the engine attains normal operating temperature.

Compression test figures of 150 psi across the board are acceptable imo, and indicate that the compression rings are okay, and that fitment of pistons to bores is within specs (i.e, piston clearances are okay and bores aren't excessively worn).

While excessive oil consumption may result from several different conditions (such as over-filling, wrong weight, fuel contamination, obstructed breather, etc.), the issue seems in this instance related to valve seals, or valve guides, or oil rings -- not compression rings -- and the relatively large volume of oil consumption points to the oil rings as primary suspects.

So check and re-check all the other stuff besides the oil rings, and measure and re-measure everything to heart's content --- won't hurt a thing, and might even promote warm and fuzzy feelings, but won't cure the oil burning problem at hand.

If the reported history is inaccurate or incomplete, it could of course affect the diagnosis.

Just my 2 cents.

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

pctech101 wrote: Got an 83 kz1100-L1
Tore her down and put new rings, new cam chain & guides, had valve job done @ machine shop. I supplied valve seals from my gasket set.
Problem. 200+ miles since reassembled. Burns quart of oil in 50+ miles. Fouls #1 sparkplug about every 50 miles. Plugs 1,2,3 all show signs of burning oil, 4 is clean. Compression is 150 on all 4. Havent done leak down, cant afford right now....

Regardless of excessive oil consumption with resultant plug fouling, and given no reported history of running on less that four cylinders or other performance issues, and given even compression figures on an engine that continues to perform upon attaining normal operating temperature (i.e., doesn't quit running when it heats up), such conditions suggest that valve clearance and valve function are at least minimally sufficient.

Insufficient valve clearance alone does not cause excessive oil consumption.
Typically, insufficient valve clearance results in loss of combustion within a cylinder, especially after the engine attains normal operating temperature.

Compression test figures of 150 psi across the board are acceptable imo, and indicate that the compression rings are okay, and that fitment of pistons to bores is within specs (i.e, piston clearances are okay and bores aren't excessively worn).

While excessive oil consumption may result from several different conditions (such as over-filling, wrong weight, fuel contamination, obstructed breather, etc.), the issue seems in this instance related to valve seals, or valve guides, or oil rings -- not compression rings -- and the relatively large volume of oil consumption points to the oil rings as primary suspects.

So check and re-check all the other stuff besides the oil rings, and measure and re-measure everything to heart's content --- won't hurt a thing, and might even promote warm and fuzzy feelings, but won't cure the oil burning problem at hand.

If the reported history is inaccurate or incomplete, it could of course affect the diagnosis.

Just my 2 cents.

Good Fortune!

Exactly! Even if the valve clearance is off, it is not going to fix the oil consumption and smoking.


Also, there are plenty of auto shops with the know how to work on these bikes, as well as plenty of dedicated bike shops that shouldn't be working on them at all.

Lots of cars with the exact same shim on top valvetrain as the KZ.

I have problems with your link. is this the same file?

www.kz1000r.com/downloads/Kawasaki%20KZ1...Service%20Manual.pdf

Patton wrote:

pctech101 wrote: Got an 83 kz1100-L1
Tore her down and put new rings, new cam chain & guides, had valve job done @ machine shop. I supplied valve seals from my gasket set.
Problem. 200+ miles since reassembled. Burns quart of oil in 50+ miles. Fouls #1 sparkplug about every 50 miles. Plugs 1,2,3 all show signs of burning oil, 4 is clean. Compression is 150 on all 4. Havent done leak down, cant afford right now....

Regardless of excessive oil consumption with resultant plug fouling, and given no reported history of running on less that four cylinders or other performance issues, and given even compression figures on an engine that continues to perform upon attaining normal operating temperature (i.e., doesn't quit running when it heats up), such conditions suggest that valve clearance and valve function are at least minimally sufficient.

Insufficient valve clearance alone does not cause excessive oil consumption.
Typically, insufficient valve clearance results in loss of combustion within a cylinder, especially after the engine attains normal operating temperature.

Compression test figures of 150 psi across the board are acceptable imo, and indicate that the compression rings are okay, and that fitment of pistons to bores is within specs (i.e, piston clearances are okay and bores aren't excessively worn).

While excessive oil consumption may result from several different conditions (such as over-filling, wrong weight, fuel contamination, obstructed breather, etc.), the issue seems in this instance related to valve seals, or valve guides, or oil rings -- not compression rings -- and the relatively large volume of oil consumption points to the oil rings as primary suspects.

So check and re-check all the other stuff besides the oil rings, and measure and re-measure everything to heart's content --- won't hurt a thing, and might even promote warm and fuzzy feelings, but won't cure the oil burning problem at hand.

If the reported history is inaccurate or incomplete, it could of course affect the diagnosis.

Just my 2 cents.

Good Fortune!

Yep

Problem is this, there are so many assumptions made on forums about possible problems, the skills of the people performing valve jobs, bore job etc....that the tendency is to confuse and frustrate the original poster of the thread with the problem....

The problem is particular and both probable causes have been given to the owner of the bike. If he follows logical progression, the problem will be discovered and resolved in short order.

Jumping the gun and going off in multiple directions is never a good thing.

If you find there is no problem with piston rings, look to the valve guides next, taking note of my post regarding that situation.

Any news to post up on the thread pctech101?

i took it easy yesterday, wasnt feeling the hottest. gets hot. anyhow, have to pull 14 nuts to have head off; glad i didnt since it rained. i want to pull pop off cylinder 1 valves and see guides and seals. if cylinder 1 guides are loose or what ever or a seal is damaged, should i keep going to rings or would it be smart to look at all valve guides and seals and if enough are loose or damaged seals, repair them and try not to disturb jugs and reassemble? sorry patton, looking for second and third opinions

If it's smoking like you say at 75mph etc you need to look at pistons and rings, it would be false economy not to check while it's in bits.

Check pistons, rings, bores etc, if they're ok then move on to valves, guides and seals.

Forget valve clearances and all the other stuff, they need checking but won't make you burn oil. If you want to do that stuff it's fine but don't let it cloud the main issue which is oil consumption.

When alls said and done if you check out the bores and pistons and all are ok it hasn't cost you anything but a gasket but has given you peace of mind.

Hope that helps put things into context.

I agree with Joe and wouldn't trust the base gasket after pulling off the head anyway. Just pull the jugs, inspect the rings, pistons, and cylinders. If they look OK, move to the valves.

well here is what head looks like and top side of pistons:
picasaweb.google.com/wiegman73/MotorcycleTeardown

cylinder 2 & 3 have oil in intake port. 1-3 pistons are oil wet. pulled valave one intake and guid doesnt wiggle. i destroyed seal try'n to get it out.

will put pics of pistons up shortly

I'd say it's definately pistons after looking at the pictures, loads of oil in there. It even looks like it's washed all the carbon off the piston crowns there's so much of it.