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TOPIC: Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 20:23 #459534

  • ELCouz
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The person that understands that stuff isnt helping me so no, i didnt measure, i bought standard rings and installed. The pistons and rings originally on there didnt consume any real oil.


Confirm if honing (breaking the glaze has been done) because putting new rings without «sanding» the jugs will prevent new rings to seat correctly hence if old rings did not consume oil now it might because they are not shaped to the cylinder shape (need honing).

Let me explain why all the fuzz about rings and cylinders...

When you got the motorcycle rings where properly break-in (no oil consumption like you said) over time the cylinder start to be very smooth and rings fit perfectly but when you put new rings without deglazing (honing) the ring ironically can't «scratch» on the cylinder wall to get its shape! it just slide on it (because of the coating,glazing) and never seal the chamber very well!

This could cause high oil consumption, smoke and will continue to smoke until cylinders gets deglazed!

I'm trying to be the most explicative without going lengthy (and too much technical) on the subject

[...]

You know while writing i had an idea...this COULD work but i'm not sure...

To know if you are leaking oil from the valve be sure to check if the intake valve is closed properly... then i would connect a high suction vacuum cleaner or device to the intake port and you MIGHT see oil seeping to the vacuum cleaner!

Beside that i have no idea to check for leaks beside taking the head apart and inspecting trace of oil around valves...

best regards,
laurent
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 20:35 #459541

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Not to start an oil war here but are you running synthetic oil like Rotella T Synthetic or another brand? I have read that rings won't break-in properly unless using dino-oil for the initial wear-in period but then you can switch back after that to synth if you wanted. Just a thought...
1979 KZ1000E1 SOLD!
1984 KZ550F2 SOLD!
2006 ZG1000A6F (Totaled)
2001 ZRX1200R (Sold)
2001 Sprint 955i ST (daily rider)

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 20:42 #459546

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KZ Rage is right on this! Never use synthetic oil to break-in an engine! In many engine machine shop this will void warranty on the job done to your engine! (including my place i get my engines done!)

Use old regular dino oil !

Before the war start that they put synthetic oil in recent NEW bike from dealer let me remind you that engine has been already break-in in the kawasaki factory (engine testing) ;)

regards,
laurent
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Last edit: by ELCouz.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 21:07 #459554

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Yes, cylinders were honed. Running regular car 10/40 non synthetic of course.

There are no leaks around my jugs, cylinders, or valve cover. Oil leak is confinded to lower side of motor. I will paarts clean her tomorrow and let her sit and get hot, maybe raise rpms a little and see if i can see where it comes from.

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. 26 Jun 2011 21:35 #459555

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Last edit: by KZ250LTD.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 21:45 #459557

  • cavanaughracing
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I just noticed that's an 83 model.

With some J heads, the valve guide fit wasn't the best. They sometimes were loose. Most times, you can install new standard sized guides without any problems. However, on occasion, an oversize guide is required because of the loose fit.

Last one I had like that come through the shop, I noticed it when the guide installed with very little resistance. I replaced them with OS guides.

Now Kawasaki was aware of the problem but didn't make a public notice of it. They used to have us install an o-ring around the the top of the guide. The spring seat would hold it down in place. This was not ever done under warranty as a warranty issue. However, if the engine happened to be apart for a head gasket, porous block replacement...etc. I would get authorization to replace the valve seals and install those O-rings.

I'm not saying that's your problem but it's something to make note of.

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Last edit: by cavanaughracing.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 21:59 #459561

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i guess it was a bad idea letting someone else do the work. i dont know what guides feel like. ive never disassembled a valve. i dont know what things are suppose to look like or not look like.

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 22:16 #459562

  • ELCouz
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The guy who did the valve job for you had experience in motorcycle engine ?
Or it was a car engine shop ?

When i was looking for a good shop... i request some «portfolio» to know that the guy doesn't bullshit me .... or i do some research if it is a big company...

If possible takes picture... videos anything that could help us visually !

By text sometime it's hard! Picture is worth a thousand words ! (i've read that somewhere :P )

regards,
laurent
1982 KZ810-R1 GPZ with hindle 4-into-1 pipe

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Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 22:55 #459569

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automotive work is their main work. my dad is friends with the owner of the business. i was led to believe that they could do the work properly. i told them i wanted a "valve job", new exhaust bolt on #3 (extraction and replacement), sparkplug hole # 3 threads repaired. i asked the tech what he needed me to get, he told me valve stem seals, i gave him the ones from my gasket set and a copy of wear limits from clymer. get head back a week later. was excited to get her back together and missed that sparkplug 3 wasnt repaired.

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Last edit: by pctech101.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 23:18 #459574

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ELCouz wrote: KZ Rage is right on this! Never use synthetic oil to break-in an engine! In many engine machine shop this will void warranty on the job done to your engine! (including my place i get my engines done!)

Use old regular dino oil !

IMHO, It's a myth that just won't die:





www.roadcarvin.com/tech/synthetic-oil-during-engine-break-in

What do the oil manufacturers say?

Mobil

Myth:

You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1.
Reality:

You can start using Mobil 1 in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:

Acura RDX
Aston Martin
All Bentley Vehicles
All Cadillac Vehicles
Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
Chrysler 300C SRT-8
Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi Evolution
Pontiac Solstice GXP
All Porsche Vehicles
Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
Viper SRT-10

One of the myths surrounding synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

- www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx


other refs:

www.bamph.com/rmh/oilmyths.htm

www.autocarepronews.com/Article/41506/pe...o_synthetic_oil.aspx

www.supplylink.com/article/fleet-synthetic-oil


texlube.com/oilmyths.htm

www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.d...70&contentId=7007980
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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Last edit: by bountyhunter.

Replacing Valve Stem Seals without pulling head 26 Jun 2011 23:22 #459575

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KZ250LTD wrote:

pctech101 wrote: Running regular car 10/40


The majority of regular automotive oil has energy preserving additives in it which will coat your clutch plates and cause your clutch to slip. Go to any brand bike shop and buy motorcycle 10w40 for $5-6 a litre

You don't have to run bike oil unless you just have money to burn. I have run car oil in my KZ-750 for 32 years (since new). You just need to avoid all oils marked "energy conserving" on the label as those have the friction reducers. Most 5-30 and 10-30 have this (avoid them), most (if not all) 10-40 and 20-50 oils do NOT have friction reducers and are safe to use.

The most dangerous aspect of all modern oil is that ZDDP has been removed from any oil labeled SM or SN service class, and engines with overhead cams and flat tappet lifters need this additive. It can be added using Redline Break-in additive or ZDDPlus. IMHO, you shouldn't run oil without sufficient ZDDP in an older bike or car.
1979 KZ-750 Twin

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Last edit: by bountyhunter.

. 26 Jun 2011 23:41 #459580

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