Rear wheel tightening?

T_Dub wrote: No you misunderstand me. The force is transferred through spacers and inner bearing races, all of which do not move. The only places in this setup, when installed properly, which have rotating friction are the bearings themselves and the seals. The friction I am talking about is the static friction that keeps the axle where it is, which is the reason for torquing it down in the first place.

yes the "static" friction keeps the axle where it is, BUT the reason the is a large variance in the torque specs for this but is that the static friction if applied in excess, WILL pinch in, thus causing drag,which is what wireman said, and again it aint cause of the damn castle nut

Lets just agree to disagree man. I think its because of the castle nut. I refuse to believe that 100ft-lbs will cause the assembly to bind, just not likely if everything is installed properly.

You dont have to keep quoting wireman, we had a friendly discussion about it in PM's, we didn't see eye to eye, we dropped it, no hard feelings. Its not a personal attack if someone disagrees with you.

T_Dub wrote: I see you have no concept of whats going on in this situation. I'm just glad the guy who started the topic is trying to find out what's wrong instead of just leaving his axle loose.

Put a piece of steel tube thats 1.5" outside diameter and 1" inside diameter in your vice, and clamp on the pipe fromt he ends. Now how much pressure before it crushes? Its a lot. Thats actually more like what's going on here.

tube steel does not react the same when inward pressure is applied as does free standing square tubing does when pressure is applied, the tube steel has crush resistant properties while the square tube steel swingarm forks have no resistance at the point of pressure (until TOO MUCH IS APPLIED, GET IT) hence the CHANNEL STEEL EXAMPLE, the forks of the swing arm are weakest at their end and therefore are prone to pinching, that is until they pinch into something I.E. (spacers, etc ...) that will cause resistance

Yes but the swingarm shouldn't have any force trying to crush it, thats the purpose of the spacers. Once you hand tighten the axle, the swingarm wont be crushing any more because the spacers and bearing races act like the tube in my example.

I agree with you in that if you dont have the wheel and spacers in there and you tighten the axle, you'll bend in the swingarm. But why would you do that?

ur saying if u tighten the nit, it applies force against the swingarm, correct ???, which, if no spacers are present will continue inward, u said it correct ???/ therefore when the force is applied to the axle nut, to the swingarm, as per ur analysis, it then transfers to the spacers, as per ur analysis correct??? so a force of 95 ft lbs on some bikes could cause force restricting ,somewhat ( as in mine and others instances) the free spinning of a wheel. Therefore the reduction of that force (say from 95 to 80, within Kawasaki adjusted specs but significantly reduced as previously stated) could allow for a previously unacceptable wheel spin to become " A FREE WILLY" ????and would be ACCEPTABLE ???/

No restricting force with 95ft-lbs, nope. You're saying that if you put 95ft-lbs on it you'll cause the spacers to compress, causing the wheel to bind on the swingarm? Just where is the friction coming from in your scenario? I just don't get it.

This is all getting out of hand. The simple fact is torqing the axle nut on either the front wheel of the rear should not effect free wheel spin in any way. If it does there is something wrong somewhere. End of story, no theorys of why the axle holds the swimgarm, whatever, why they changed the torque spec. None of it matters. Axle torque has zero effect on wheel turning. No need to even torque the axle really to any specific torque spec. Tighten the axle tight just like lug nuts on a car and you are done. i suppose you torque your Corolla to 20 ft/lb also so the wheel turns better?

RonKZ650 wrote: This is all getting out of hand. The simple fact is torqing the axle nut on either the front wheel of the rear should not effect free wheel spin in any way. If it does there is something wrong somewhere. End of story, no theorys of why the axle holds the swimgarm, whatever, why they changed the torque spec. None of it matters. Axle torque has zero effect on wheel turning. No need to even torque the axle really to any specific torque spec. Tighten the axle tight just like lug nuts on a car and you are done. i suppose you torque your Corolla to 20 ft/lb also so the wheel turns better?

no we are discussing, and its only out of hand if u think it is, get a kz, loose the axle nut as u described, RIDE IT, IF U HAVE A REAR DISC BRAKE, THE TIRE WILL BE RUBBING ON THE CALIPER RETAINING ARM WHEN U GET HOME, ASK ME HOW i KNOW, NOW IF UR SO SURE i'M MORE THAN WILLING TO PUT A HUNDRED DOLLARS ON THIS ONE, U GAME ????

RonKZ650 wrote: This is all getting out of hand. The simple fact is torqing the axle nut on either the front wheel of the rear should not effect free wheel spin in any way. If it does there is something wrong somewhere. End of story, no theorys of why the axle holds the swimgarm, whatever, why they changed the torque spec. None of it matters. Axle torque has zero effect on wheel turning. No need to even torque the axle really to any specific torque spec. Tighten the axle tight just like lug nuts on a car and you are done. i suppose you torque your Corolla to 20 ft/lb also so the wheel turns better?

This

T_Dub wrote:

RonKZ650 wrote: This is all getting out of hand. The simple fact is torqing the axle nut on either the front wheel of the rear should not effect free wheel spin in any way. If it does there is something wrong somewhere. End of story, no theorys of why the axle holds the swimgarm, whatever, why they changed the torque spec. None of it matters. Axle torque has zero effect on wheel turning. No need to even torque the axle really to any specific torque spec. Tighten the axle tight just like lug nuts on a car and you are done. i suppose you torque your Corolla to 20 ft/lb also so the wheel turns better?

no but if u over tighten u kill wheel bearings, another quote

i was certified in common sense myself,these fucking internet engineering types have none !
when you tighten the wheel bearings on the front of a car do you torque them down to 150lbs? fuck no you snug em up and back em off till they feel right!

from my boy wireman

and as a side note, i had a mechanic do my truck and went through four wheel bearing in 2 years, its was last night, through the wisdom of one who knew more than i did that i figured out why, over tightening

I'm not an internet engineering type, I happen to have a mechanical engineering degree on my wall. Maybe you should go get an education instead of arguing with people about shit you know nothing about.

I'm having a hard time following your flawed theory on this in your ramblings really. loose the axle and my disc will rub the caliper? OK that is a good one. You are the one saying run "loose". We all say tighten the nut fully. :laugh: