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TOPIC: Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 01 Nov 2011 11:49 #486477

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got a little close this weekend with help from my brother (who has ms'd about 5 vehicles or so)
surprisingly all the sensors that came with my kz1100b2 worked perfectly, the only one I had to modify was the TPS (had to reverse 2 wires to get it to read right) stock temp sensors were very close to how bosch sensors read. the stock fuel pump relay was wired weird, computer sent + vs - that the ms sends, so I added a relay that the ms computer turns on to send + to the stock relay.
the only wires I had to add were 2 sets of injector wires for each bank. I have to finish modifying my fuel pressure regulator, and should have it up and running very soon. then I can tank it to work and get it on the dyno and see how it's doing.

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 01 Nov 2011 13:49 #486489

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One problem with the new microsquirt is it can only handle 2 low
Impedance injectors. I have 4
81 KZ1000 LTD
Griffin GA

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 02 Nov 2011 01:33 #486653

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jydog wrote: One problem with the new microsquirt is it can only handle 2 low
Impedance injectors. I have 4


You going that way by design or some you already have?
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 02 Nov 2011 06:53 #486662

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Boostable, mistake on my part I guess. I thought the low impedance injectors would be better, I heard they are more responsive at lower rpm. I just realized mustang injectors are high impedance so I'll just use a set of those and everything will be fine. I think that stock GPZ1100 injectors are low so that is something for everyone to be aware of who might use stock hardware. I also came across the fact that the asian tuners are using resistors and a calculation to adjust for this. Im just going with a set of high imp 30lb injectors to keep it simple.

ratvespa, do you have a build or project link? Id like to see all of the details of your setup, are you going fuel only or fuel and ignition? What computer, software, how do you have it all hooked up?
What injectors, fuel pressure and pump?
81 KZ1000 LTD
Griffin GA

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 02 Nov 2011 12:07 #486692

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Innovative LC-1 wideband O2 systems are selling on eBay for $133 complete with O2 sensor right now. That's about $70 cheaper than the usual price.
I just bought one and figured someone here might be interested.
KD9JUR

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 02 Nov 2011 15:07 #486707

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steell wrote: Innovative LC-1 wideband O2 systems are selling on eBay for $133 complete with O2 sensor right now. That's about $70 cheaper than the usual price.
I just bought one and figured someone here might be interested.


Link? or Seller ID?
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 02 Nov 2011 15:57 #486713

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Found it... thanks for the tip. Good buy for sure.
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 02 Nov 2011 19:40 #486726

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steell wrote: Innovative LC-1 wideband O2 systems are selling on eBay for $133 complete with O2 sensor right now. That's about $70 cheaper than the usual price.
I just bought one and figured someone here might be interested.


Steell, Id be all over it if I didn't have one. Good find!
81 KZ1000 LTD
Griffin GA

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 02 Nov 2011 22:38 #486754

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OK guys straighten me out here! Instead of using a toothed wheel, why would we not use an electronic crank trigger like the Pro Trigger from Dyna?

What am I missing?
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 09:53 #486802

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bootstable,
for now I am just going fuel only, MS 2.2 thats been flashed so it has the extras (mostly just wanted the larger fuel tables.

pretty much everything in the bike is stock GPz (kz1100b2) efi, except for the injectors, they were from a mid 2000's gsxr600, I had to make some parts to make them work in my stock TB's. fuel pump is stock, fuel pressure regulator is an aeromotive one (check my post, I think I posted a pic of it in this thread)

I don't have a build of it, just kind of doing it as I find time.

the wiring is pretty much all stock, MS is going to sit where the stock computer sat. the only wires I had to add were injector wires, since the stock harness had the injectors hot all the time, and they all fired at the some time. I went with 2 banks with the MS. if anyone is doing 100b2 I can scan my ghetto wiring diagram I scribbled on some paper.

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 09:54 #486803

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Boostable wrote: OK guys straighten me out here! Instead of using a toothed wheel, why would we not use an electronic crank trigger like the Pro Trigger from Dyna?

What am I missing?


as for the trigger I am just using the tach output on the dyna2000. it should be a clean enough tach output for the MS. if I was controlling spark I would need a toothed wheel.

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 19:02 #486879

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Boostable, Im going to try using the stock pickups with 3 diodes to combine the signal into one.

Ratvespa, more details on your injector setup please.
81 KZ1000 LTD
Griffin GA

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 21:47 #486901

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jydog wrote: Boostable, Im going to try using the stock pickups with 3 diodes to combine the signal into one.

Ratvespa, more details on your injector setup please.


I don't understand why you're doing the extra work to combine the two signals, just trigger off one or the other.

The only time you need a toothed wheel is if you're using MegaSquirt to control ignition.
KD9JUR

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Last edit: by steell.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 22:07 #486905

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Thats my confusion. Why do you need to use a toothed wheel in order for MS to control ignition? Based on what im reading, since V2.8 there is an option for dual input, dual output. (Independent Dual Ignition) Thus giving the ability to have input1 trigger both inj1 and output1, and input2 trigger inj2 and output2. Isn't this what we are after?

Advantages or disadvantages versus a wheel?

Thanks guys..

See the snippet below..


1.Independent dual ignition: This would typically be used for a two cylinder motor, but also can be used with a 4 cylinder engine and wasted spark. It uses two independent tach inputs on VRin1 and VRin2 (NOT a wheel input in the sense that there are not many teeth, just one per cylinder). It is intended primarily for 2 cylinder 'odd-fire' engines. Such engines include the Harley-Davidson (45°), MotoGuzzi (90°), Ducati (90°), Suzuki (75°), and Honda (52°) V-twins.

Alternating tach pulses from two crank or cam wheel sensors (which are physically offset with respect to each other) are fed to the two ignition input circuits and they produce two ignition outputs to separate coils. This can be odd or even fire - it doesn't matter because the pairs of input/outputs are independent.

Input 1 triggers one injection channel (INJ1) and one ignition channel (Output 1), the other input (Input 2) triggers the other coil (Output 2) and injector bank (INJ2). Global things like RPM, etc. are computed from the channel 1 input. Since they are independent, the crank degree spacing between them (i.e. delta T between channel one and channel 2) does not matter. So the unit supports odd-fire, and it also injects based on which input (Input 1 fires injector 1, Input 2 fires injector 2).

If you have an even fire engine, then try to make the input sensors 180° apart (i.e. directly opposite). With independent dual inputs and outputs, the odd-fire angle is generally built into the sensor location from the factory to reflect the offset in firing of the two cylinder banks. If this is the case, do NOT set the second output offset (odd angle) under Advanced Ignition menu. Otherwise the offset would be applied twice, which would not be correct.

In this mode you cannot set the 'toothed wheel', 'trigger return', or 'EDIS' options - they won't work. Also, set the ignition ISR time mask, and the percent mask the same as in non-Dual Spark mode.

~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 22:07 #486906

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You have to program it as a 2cyl to do that dont you?
81 KZ1000 LTD
Griffin GA

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 22:26 #486908

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I don't think so, or at least I don't see that on the Megasquirt setting sheet.

Here is the page I am getting this from.

www.microsquirt.info/dualspark.htm

Jack
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 22:35 #486910

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Boostable wrote: I don't think so, or at least I don't see that on the Megasquirt setting sheet.

Here is the page I am getting this from.

www.microsquirt.info/dualspark.htm

Jack


I dont know if this is the problem but in the settings above it says

"The number of teeth on the crank wheel must be the one-half (½) the number of cylinders"

Our bikes have 1 tooth.
81 KZ1000 LTD
Griffin GA

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Nov 2011 22:48 #486911

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Running a V with a wheel I could see it, but I would think that the dual crank sensor like an MSD or Dyna would basically represent two teeth 180deg out from one another and allow for proper firing of the ignition through MS. Yes, no, maybe?

Unless I come up with an obvious reason why this would not work, I am gonna have to try it!
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 06 Nov 2011 11:27 #487212

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jydog wrote: Boostable, Im going to try using the stock pickups with 3 diodes to combine the signal into one.

Ratvespa, more details on your injector setup please.


check out page 2 of this thread. you can see the junction I made between the 2 rails, and the v blocks I has made to hold them all down. I am lucky enough to have a mill, lathe, and the shop next to me thats a waterjet shop. The fuel connector piece was the hardest to make. I got some 1/2in hex bar stock from mcmaster carr, and made it wider than the stock gsxr piece since my engine is wider. the gsrx600 (I think mid 2000's, they are all about the same) injectors just dropped in, the spacing for the 1,2 and 3,4 was perfect, and everything dropped into my stock 82 kz1100b2 tb's.

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 10 Nov 2011 01:24 #487839

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well that was too damn easy. hooked up everything tonight, set all the constants, built a caculated table based on hp, tq, peaks, injector flow, and CC's and....well it fired up right away, let it idle with the high idle on for less than a min, then switched it off and let it idle on it own...reved it a few times, felt snappy.
just gotta fix one small fuel leak and get it on the dyno at work and get it close, then put in my wideband and let the computer finish the rest.

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