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TOPIC: Top-End Redo

Top-End Redo 30 Jul 2019 20:52 #808467

  • daveo
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Not sure if this is a smart question or not, but here it is regardless...

In the long run, how much better to install a cylinder block with new sleeves, versus honing the old ones when the bores are worn but still within spec?

:blink:
1982 KZ1135A-2
January 2016 BOTM

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Top-End Redo 31 Jul 2019 05:09 #808478

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Ideally, there should be no out of round or taper in the bores, and the piston to wall clearance would be to the low end of the spec. Personally, if I were rebuilding an engine and longevity was the goal I'd try to find some OEM OS pistons and then have a good company like APE do the cylinder boring/honing work.
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Top-End Redo 31 Jul 2019 05:38 #808479

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I re-did one of my Z1B's. The cylinders had been bored to 1015 cc but I wanted to go back to 903. I had two choices...new sleeves or used cylinders. I went with used cylinders that were within spec and only required honing because it was a cheaper alternative. I only put a couple of thousand miles on each of my bikes each year so the used cylinders will last my lifetime.
I have a couple of Z1B's restored, an '80 KZ1000LTD restored, a 1981 KZ550 restored and a 2008 KLR 650 for off road fun. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.
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Top-End Redo 31 Jul 2019 17:55 #808515

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We're really talking only about the 80+/- mm length of cylinder surface where the rings travel, correct?
Short video explains basically what is going on in there:

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Top-End Redo 31 Jul 2019 18:21 #808518

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A cylinder sleeve got the most wear on the TDC and BDC area. The piston rings residence time is much longer( slow piston speed) in this area.
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Last edit: by Scirocco.

Top-End Redo 02 Aug 2019 11:53 #808609

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Cylinders do not wear evenly over time. The high cylinder pressures near the top, combined with large temperature variations over the entire cylinder, ESPECIALLY on air cooled cylinders, make the bore wear far away from round and true. Honing ONLY does not return these out of round bores to round. A good Sunnen type hone will do ok, but there is flex and stone pressure changes that do not allow it to re true the bore to round. Add to this the point that the piston to cylinder clearance will now be far greater than the specs call for. The ONLY way to return the bores to round is a machine type boring bar, or mill with boring head, but the boring bar is better, and then hone. That then requires the cylinder to be increased to the next oversize.
"83 KZ1100 Spectre, '81 Yamaha XV750 Cafe, '74 Kawasaki H2B 750
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Last edit: by DGA.

Top-End Redo 02 Aug 2019 15:41 #808618

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daveo wrote: We're really talking only about the 80+/- mm length of cylinder surface where the rings travel, correct?
Short video explains basically what is going on in there:

Sorry but only 66mm stoke on these engines.
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Top-End Redo 02 Aug 2019 18:50 #808630

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I'd think about APE too..... pretty sure they have a Wiesco 1170 set with 10 and a 1/4 to 1. With your carbs bet that thing would be a real beast.
1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket....
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Top-End Redo 02 Aug 2019 20:59 #808632

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zed1015 wrote:

daveo wrote: We're really talking only about the 80+/- mm length of cylinder surface where the rings travel, correct?
Short video explains basically what is going on in there:

Sorry but only 66mm stoke on these engines.


I thought the distance between the top and bottom piston ring would be added to the stroke to determine the total ring movement (wear area) in the cylinder.
If I am mistaken, oh well...it's not my first or last.

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Top-End Redo 02 Aug 2019 21:27 #808633

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KZB2 650 wrote: I'd think about APE too..... pretty sure they have a Wiesco 1170 set with 10 and a 1/4 to 1. With your carbs bet that thing would be a real beast.


With lower compression the engine runs well on Regular gas. It operates cool and should last a long time. I may bump the compression up a little, but prefer to keep it close to stock. Would be the third top-end redo since I've owned her, and I hesitate to add more stress than she might be able to handle.

:)
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Top-End Redo 03 Aug 2019 06:47 #808639

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True. A lot of folks believe raising the compression ratio will give them lots more horsepower, but that really isn't the case unless other engine modes are performed. The links below show the effect on hp as compression ratios are increased. Ed

www.wallaceracing.com/hp-cr-chg.php
www.bgsoflex.com/crchange.html
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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Top-End Redo 03 Aug 2019 06:59 #808642

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650ed wrote: True. A lot of folks believe raising the compression ratio will give them lots more horsepower, but that really isn't the case unless other engine modes are performed. The links below show the effect on hp as compression ratios are increased. Ed

www.wallaceracing.com/hp-cr-chg.php
www.bgsoflex.com/crchange.html


Thanks for posting that great piece of information! :)
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