loud pipes save lives

bountyhunter wrote:

dangedcoyote wrote:

Actually you would have been at fault. It would be called reckless endangerment I believe. You are to be in control at all times of your vehicle.

No, it MIGHT have been called an unsafe lane change, but if the situation was as described, most of the blame goes to the speeder who could be cited for reckless driving. Blame for an accident is not always 100% on one driver, in fact it frequently is not.

People must look both ways and check their mirrors, but if somebody travels at very high speed, they are too small to be seen by a driver making a reasonable effort.

Further, he might see the other vehicle and judge it's overtaking speed to be SOMETHING SANE which would make him incorrectly estimate whether or not it was safe to pull out, pass, change lanes, etc.

not always. different stated have laws determining 'at fault' procedure. illinois , either you did it or you didnt, if you are ruled to be 51% at fault, its ALL on you. lame, i know, but it has actually saved a friend of mine from paying out the ass on some stupid accident he had last year.

Since I got back into bikes five years I have followed the pipe debate with some interest. As a result I've done my own informal study when I'm out on the road in an extended cab pickup, a car or van may differ. What I've experienced is that when being overtaken at highway speeds (over 45 MPH) the bike could not be heard until it was in my blind spot which would be advantageous on a multi-lane freeway. Meeting a bike from any other direction, it could not be heard until the distance was so short between us that no evasive action could have been taken by either me or the rider if a crash had been impending.

At city speeds (less than 35 MPH or so) the bike can often be heard farther away but correctly identifying its location may be difficult due to the sound diffusing effects of buildings and other objects. This is a double edged sword as I see it as other motorists may not be looking in the right direction even though they are aware a bike is somewhere close.

Now, let's move onto running the high beams in the daytime. Many riders have decided that riding with the high beam on will increase their visibility. They are right, a bike with its high beam on is quite hard not to notice, however there is a side effect that they may not have considered. I was out in a nearby town back on Wednesday and the day was cloudy, pretty much overcast, so light level was low. I met a bike on the highway in a 45 MPH zone with the dual headlights on high beam. The problem for me was that it was so bright that I had to take my focus off the bike and observe the right side of the road. Imagine my surprise when he crossed my lane of traffic in a left turn and I saw an older guy on a Wing. There was plenty of distance but I didn;t know he was going to turn because I was too blinded by his high beams to see his turn signal. Think about it, in his attempt of protecting himself he obscured his only way of communicating his intentions to other drivers. I suppose this is why operating high beams during the daytime is strongly discouraged if not outright prohibited.

I think everyone should keep in mind that everything we do has a trade-off. Sometimes there are unintended consequences suffered by others and sometimes we suffer those consequences. Our choices boil down to balancing risks and consequences.

In open traffic with nobody in front of you the Highbeam makes sence. If you have traffic in front of you switch to the low beam. On the Highway I leave it off. Driving country roads out in the open with side roads the Highbeam is almost manditory. With the advent of the cell phone todays driving is completely different. You almost have to follow a car at a distance close enough as a blocker so they dont turn in front of you. Riding in open road is dangerous. I pucker at ever intersection. People dont even make eye contact. It also seems like there is way more gravel on the roads than ever before. But most of all I think people have no respect for Motorcycles any more. They just wont move over to let you have open road. Overall you must be way more alert with fewer outs...Russ

Loud pipes don't save lives.
Having the mentality that you are "safer" because of your loud pipes may cost you your life.
Driving defensively, being super aware of everything around you and being a safer rider in general can save your life.
Loud pipes just annoy people and give the non-riding public a bad name for motorcyclist in general. Having loud pipes because it is your birth right and it far out weighs anyone elses birth right to not have to listen to extremely loud pipes gives motorcycling a bad name.
My man chair (recliner) sits about 20 ft from the road and everytime a loud bike rides by I cant hear a damned thing on TV and its annoying as heck.

One up the "loud pipes save lives" crowd and pull the stingers out of your 2 stroke bike and go to a mostly "loud pipes save lives" gathering. I did ( I dont need loud pipes to be annoying:S ) and the obnioxious 2 stroke "sting" wasnt didn't go over well. When I was questioned about it, I pointed to my "loud pipes save lives" sticker. Even then they didnt "get the point" and then started a "rice burner VS 'REAL' bike" heated discussion.

Suzuki GT 750, Mikuni 38mm Flatslides, JR chambers

I do not use my highbeam in the day because of it's intensity. People should be completely able to see the lowbeam. Just another consideration for the other guy and now that I've read NONB's account it makes more sense.
Another rant:
Around here for years they used to oil the whole road and then cover it with sand. In a few days they would sweep all the sand up. They used to say it resealed the road and gave it more years of use. Saving taxpayer money. But it was super pucker factor when you turned a corner and the road was covered with a film of 3 inch deep oily sand on a blacktop road. It was bad in a car and a nightmare on a bike. So then they started to at least put up signs warning you of "Road Oiling". I'm happy to report that that no longer happens. But then they started bringing a hot tar truck down the roads and squirting the goo onto the road cracks for the same reason. The roads looked like an Iranian newspaper with sanscrit written all over them. Trouble was the goo was slippery until it got washed and run over for a few days. Another deal with it thing. Grrrrrr! Well the other day I get on a local road and damn. The must have had a jigsaw puzzle of cracks on that road (I travel it almost daily and never noticed them). Almost completely covered with this slippery goo and it was super thick and super slick. About 1/8 of an inch over the surface of the road. I came over that road swearing. Swearing if that goo was all over my bike the state would pay for it's cleaning and praying that I made it without slipping out. A couple days later and the army of re-surfacers is waiting to do the whole road. Now I don't know if that was the plan all along or someone came to their senses or somebody powerful kicked some peon butt and is making them do it. But it saves me the trouble of doing it. Now they need to put up warning signs when they do it. Point is why do they have to keep learning the same lessons over and over again?

KawiConvert wrote:

Best you can hope for is when your cruising next to them in their blind spot they'll hear you and not change into your lane.

Cruising in a blind spot is a recipe for disaster. I ride slightly behind or slightly ahead of the car beside me. All to often the cage driver changes lanes THEN checks the mirror.

Suzuki GT 750, Mikuni 38mm Flatslides, JR chambers [/quote]

Nice Water Buffalo by the way.

I hate to continue this thread any longer but I gotta ask:

PATTON, where do I get that shirt?

Fish! Welcome back, dude!!!

I was at bike night last night. There were some really nice examples of vintage bikes, some victory machines, some crotch rockets, and some Harleys, and plenty of obnoxious assholes with straight pipes.

What I am trying to figure out is why the obsession with loud pipes?

Is it to get more attention (because if you liked being called an asshole - then it sure gets you that attention.)

Is it to save lives? (I don't think so - it makes no difference what bike you are riding if you are an unsafe rider.)

I just chalk it up to the fact that some people are stubborn morons who could care less about others in their presence.

The movies and the portrayal of so called outlaws on loud bikes + those idiot Tuttles at OCC has convinced anyone with a total of 2 brain cells and good enough credit to finance a Harley own a device of capable of ear drum shattering noise pollution at the expense of eveyone in earshot.

I would like to see heavy fines for people who abuse others personal freedoms. In this case, loud pipes are becoming a major issue in big cities. With some cities now issuing tickets for people excessivly revving the engine. I would say make them pay. There is really isn't any need.

KR

The do the oil and gravel thing here and call it "armor coating". They do much the same thing except they use about a 3/8" aggregate and sweep up the excess right away. Still, for a month or two there are defined lanes where every one drives and loose gravel between. Eventually the loose stuff gets worked to the side after the first or second snowfall and by the next year the road is a prime surface.

I don't know if that's necessarily worse than the milled highway surface.