What's the attraction to V Twins?

Z1109R Fin wrote:

It´s all about image and biker-look. And outstanding marketing of Harley DavidsonB)

You are really being myopic if you think image is a HD only anomaly. For the japs it started with "You meet the nicest people on a Honda." and continues till today with any of a hundred magazine adds or TV commercials. Harley certainly has marketing know how and so does the japs. Multimillion dollar ad agencies and design teams decide what we want and what will tickle our testosterone. "Biker look" is too ambiguous. If you mean big biker outlaw look....yep HD pretty much invented it but the japs know a good thing when they see it and voila you have the Tuna Twins!! Well tit for tat (Mmmmmm!) and the biker look that is sport inspired the V-Rod. But somewhere in the middle and I hope for civilizations sake are the "riders". Those who are just as happy to ride a standard as well as a "image" and have had a chance to ride both schools and breed of bike and either own and ride both or have decided on one while appreciating both. I can understand a narrow focus on one or the other but I seem to have trouble when that focus generates the inability to appreciate both. No... that's not it either! I guess I just can't understand when that focus generates the animosity enough to take a swing at the other school of thought. To me that is myopic.

Locozuna wrote:

Z1109R Fin wrote:

It´s all about image and biker-look. And outstanding marketing of Harley DavidsonB)

You are really being myopic if you think image is a HD only anomaly. I can understand a narrow focus on one or the other but I seem to have trouble when that focus generates the inability to appreciate both. No... that's not it either! I guess I just can't understand when that focus generates the animosity enough to take a swing at the other school of thought. To me that is myopic.

So many fancy words and I´m too tired to pick up the dictionary...Well, Locozuna, I´m not att all narrow minded. To me it´s just great when people get their kicks out of something. For me it´s an old Kwak. Used to be a CrisCraft V8 (fuel prices...pheiiis..)

What bugs me is the well orchestrated marketing behind this scene. Like H.O.G. Now what that looks to me is a great marketing machinery building up an image and selling wastly overprized goods to people. I see it every day. People getting their new Hogs while the lady drives the Mercs or Bemers home...

This is just my ,02€. I have absolutely nothing against HD as such, just the way the marketing builds up an image of something that´s not really there.

Why is it that I feel like HD is somehow sacret and you´r not allowed to criticise it? Is it like some kind of a relic that needs to be worshipped year after year?

Question still remains: Where is the substance in the marketing? What do you get for your money besides the image?

The big Q is in fact: So What! Does it matter whether it´s an image as long as you get your kicks out of it? This is the key Q here. If it´s a HD good for you but never ever try to explain about the V-twin power ´cause that ain´t there when it come sto Harley.

And for all of you on this board this is not personal, just my ,02€, so no need to start flaming:P Love to stirr up the pot;)

Fin, you've got a lot of things right. One is not allowed to dump on the sacred HOG despite the fact that one hears rice this and jap crap that. Around this small town there are many who have bought into the hype, the marketing, the trend, and equate a motorcycle with only one brand and that must now belong to the image cult. I'm jaded and sarcastic because I see this nonsense every day. There are very few motorcyclists in this town, just mostly testosterone laden jerks whose apparent idea of showing off their membership in the clique is blasting around town and embarrassing the idea of a motorcycle as a sensible means of transportation. Mostly it's just an ego trip.

I had hopes a year ago of people around here enjoying motorcycles for what they are. This year I've seen little evidence of that trend continuing as it's back to the same ol' same ol'.

As for the Motor Company, I don't wish them or their workforce any ill. They just don't make a product I'm interested in owning and that's mostly due to their local ambassadors.

wiredgeorge wrote:

Bill, You asked about v-twins and the thread turned into a testosterone spitting contest... I have owned more bikes than most of the folks here (I am older than I look hehe). The problem is, most folks start to equate v-twins with Harleys which are slow and heavy. One characteristic I find important is the type of power that makes it easy to ride in twisties FAST. My last Vulcan 1500A was about 500 lbs, had a reworked suspension and I hopped the engine up. You could hit a turn in ANY gear and twist the throttle and it would pull like a freight train out. It made me a better rider than I normally am. It was MUCH easier to ride fast than a 4 cylinder which has to be kept in its powerband. I just sold a Bandit 1200S which is supposed to be a torque-monster but the Bandit doesn't really compare to a big-inch v-twin like that Vulcan. I miss the Vulcan sometimes.

are those stock pipes?those are cool looking!

i once was talking to my oldest daughters friends mother about bikes and even showed her some of the pictures of our local click.

she said they are beautiful bikes but all girls fantasize of being on the back of a big bad harley.

i admit, i would love to have an old rigid panhead.
i rode one with 14 inch bars from rochester to the thousand islands once. ( 4 hours on a ridgid was more than my back should ever be submited to )
something about the old school harley is appealing to me.
i loved every minute of that ride.

i made up my mind then that it just wasn't the bike for me or a long ride. putting around town or taking a small run is cool but distance? forget about it.

but to answer the question at hand, chicks dig a harley.
some think that is the only true bike.
some think it's un-american to ride anything else.
how many times did i see the helmet stickers that said
" if i have to explain, you'll never understand"

they are some marketing wizards.

Fin I really apologize for the "fancy words" but I do stand by myopic. You get upset that people are buying HD's and their wives are driving BMW's and such home. I could be dense here but I don't understand what about that upsets you. Pretty much all motorcycle companies have great marketing branches. "You meet the nicest people on a Honda!" pretty much launched the Jap brands. You also have heard quite a few respected people say they actually enjoy riding HD's and their power is suffice if not impressive. Yet you continue to jump between their lack of power and draconian but effective marketing as a burr under your saddle. Most people seem to dislike those hard core HD outlaws that have nothing good to say about anything other than HD's. Trouble is the ones that complain about them clowns most of the time turns into a clown also, just with a different paint scheme. Just the sight of someone on another kind of bike is enough to bother them enough to narrow their vision from the rider to the bike so now it's not some asshat on a bike...it's the bikes fault. Works both ways. Nobody is stifling the owners of HD's so they won't say how horrible the machine is. No HD Militia 's going to hunt down disgruntled HD owners before they can "tell the real story of their horrible bikes" yet HD and V-twins(Tuna Twins) in general have a lot of non-village people praising the bikes they ride. I think anyone refusing to admit that or insinuating that they are being duped is fair to say being myopic.
And if Kawasakiman says chicks dig em....that alone is good enough for me!!

KZCSI wrote:

I've got to ask what's the big deal with V twins? In the early days they were merely easy, add another cylinder to a transverse crank.

Oops! the rear cylinder seems to run hotter. What we gonna do?

The problem seemed to be self regulating, less HP meant less performance till Honda sold their corporate soul with the Shadow.

Whom ever decided that the shadow was a good name and even a good design was a fool! Today, I believe that Hardly Davidson has realized a boost in sales simply because Honda and Suzuki and Kawasaki decided that they best imitate the motor company. I haven't checked the numbers but I believe that my KZ1100 will outrun any Hardly except a rod, which is more correctly a Porche.

My point is why is the motorcycle community addicted to transverse V twins when clearly most other designs yield more power?

Hey I'm as loyal as they come. I've got the best V twin that Ma Kaw has offered, a 1600 Mean Streak. I can tell you that it can't come close to my 1100 for acceleration.

What's so special about a V twin?

KZCSI

My Cycle Canada magazine had an editorial article a few months back about how the twin was the most popular engine sold these days. HD, Yammy, Suzi, Kawi, Honda, BMW, Guzzi and Ducati all make them.

Yes in-line fours can (and usually do) make more peak horsepower as compared to a twin of equal displacement. The difference is my beemer makes it peak torque at cruising revs(3000 with a 7500rpm redline) whereas for my Honda crotch rocket, needs to spin to 10,000rpm(with a 12000rpm redline) to get its power. The point is, most twin owners get their max torque at don't disturb their neighbours (or the police), but wind up up your racebike and everyone knows!

The other thing I cling to is: horspeower may win drag races but oodles of mid-range torque makes it fun to ride.

Just my two cents...Sam

Samwell wrote: The point is, most twin owners get their max torque at don't disturb their neighbours (or the police), but wind up up your racebike and everyone knows!

The other thing I cling to is: horspeower may win drag races but oodles of mid-range torque makes it fun to ride.

Just my two cents...Sam[/quote]

You haven't heard my neighbor light up his Fat Bob with Vance and Hines pipes at 6 in the morning. I have to admit, he sure tries not to wake anybody. Barely takes it over idle until he's two blocks away. Then he wakes up EVERYBODY in town, so me being awakened by an unmuffled Twin at idle just means that I get woke up a couple of minutes before everyone else in town.
I'm with nonb on this:
The new wave of bikers (can anybody say, "Wild Hogs" wannabes?) are bad for biking. Fortunately, they're not riding 25 year old Kaws, so all I have to do is point out that I'm not "one of them!":woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

And I'll add that most of the "new" bikers never rode an RD250, much less an H1, so their understanding of performance is missing the experience of motorcycle performance, and they're absolutely delighted with anything that has a better power/weight ratio than the Chevy half-ton or 350 Chevelle of their youth. Yeah, I know some of you have said you like the relaxed pace of a Twin, but these new bikers actually think they have a rocket! They ride a bike that weighs 900 pounds, and they think they're canyon carvers! They actually think the front brake is an accessory, because the only bike they ever rode has a 4" wide front and a 12" wide back tire, and they darn sure know that that's because the back tire is the most important!
But then, their kids are building "tuner" cars whose sound system is worth more than the motor and suspension combined. I'm working on a car that has (at last count) 5 enthusiast websites, but only two members total that have ever been inside their engines. (sigh) But they can talk for PAGES about which muffler gives their cars that "just right" rasp, and they brag about 17 second quarters.
So maybe the problem isn't one particular brand (or even engine layout), maybe it's because there isn't a long enough season on stupidity. Too many safety features mean that "dumb" is survivable.

pstrbrc wrote:

You haven't heard my neighbor light up his Fat Bob with Vance and Hines pipes at 6 in the morning. I have to admit, he sure tries not to wake anybody. Barely takes it over idle until he's two blocks away. Then he wakes up EVERYBODY in town, so me being awakened by an unmuffled Twin at idle just means that I get woke up a couple of minutes before everyone else in town.
I'm with nonb on this:
The new wave of bikers (can anybody say, "Wild Hogs" wannabes?) are bad for biking. Fortunately, they're not riding 25 year old Kaws, so all I have to do is point out that I'm not "one of them!":woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Well I have a neighbor you can have to go with yours with a GS1100 and straights that leaves for work at 4:15am so if you think it's a Hurley thing..think again. And this one doesn't even try to be considerate. Now the other guy near me has an Ultra Glide and that beastie is damn quiet! Just like the guy with the Duc 998. The bike is quiet but it seems to shake the ground a lot. How about the Speed Racer wannabees? Are they also bad for biking? We are talking about small percentages here.

I'd be happy to hear an uncorked inline 4 once in a while just for variety.

My drag racer neighbor/classmate works on his drag bikes some evenings and while I can hear him here in the house from about 120 feet away it definitely doesn't rattle the house like the twins going by. But it isn't pulling a load either. I'm sure it screams at the dragstrip and that's the only place for an unbaffled exhaust.

I do know what you mean by that. I do miss the bubbly boiling of a two stroke multi at rest and then breaking for the redline in exotic howl. But not every morning and not even every day. I would really appreciate it more now that I have not heard it for quite a while. Had a great soundfile of a two stroke winding up somewhere around here.