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Stumped! Carbs valves electrical or what?
- SWest
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- 10 22 2014
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- Patton
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KZB2 650 wrote: . . .
Hey Patton school us on the air screw and sync too will ya please .... it seems like I remember you saying it should be under 1 turn maybe 1/4 or 1/2 turn out from closed way back and also they should only be bench sync'd cause with the tops off and adjusting them with a sync gauges they will be off as the slides leak air and throw you off.......... I will admit the 2 times I used a ground rod to bench shim them they were closer than I ever had them with the mercury sync.
To make info about syncing smoothbore carbs easier to find, I created a separate thread entitled
Sync smoothbore carbs.
Here's the link:
www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/59979...othbore-carbs#691778
Here's the initial post:
Patton wrote: Sudco recommends only mechanical sync for smoothbore carbs.
Such mechanical sync is also known as bench sync, where the carb assembly has been removed from the engine and is on the work bench with the top caps removed to allow access to the throttle slide adjustments in each carb.
After the bench sync, would normally expect to do a "running sync" with manometer or vacuum gauges, but Sudco says among other reasons that the detached caps allow air leaks which adversely impact a "running sync."
In summary, Sudco says to carefully bench sync, followed by pilot air screw tuning of the idle circuits with the carbs fully assembled (i.e., caps attached).
Where a manometer or vacuum gauges are available, I suppose the manometer or gauges could be attached and watched while doing the pilot air screw tuning (caps attached).
The stock Mikuni carbs with side-located pilot air screws would be expected to have the same "air leak" as noted by Sudco with their caps removed. However, the Kawasaki FSM details the procedure for both bench sync (basically same as the mechanical sync described by Sudco), followed by a running sync with caps removed and manometer or vacuum gauges attached.
I'm as yet unconvinced why smoothbores should only be bench synced without the same later running sync used on stock Mikuni's as provided in the FSM. And I have long enjoyed success in syncing smoothbores by following the FSM stock carb sync procedure for Mikuni mechanical throttle slide carbs. The dreaded "air leaks" with caps removed hasn't been an issue. And in any event, running sync may be easily verified by reading the manometer or vacuum gauges after the caps are replaced and vacuum plugs reinstalled.
Let's say that bench sync has been done, and the carb assembly is now reattached to the engine, and the carb caps are off, and manometer or vacuum gauges are attached, and engine is idling, and synch screws have been adjusted to provide the best equal vacuums in all carbs, and the slide adjustments have been locked. Next, turn off the engine, remove the manometer or vacuum gauges, and replace the caps. Then re-start the engine and proceed with final fine tuning of the pilot air screws.
Remember to have a fan blowing on the engine to keep it from over-heating while the engine is at idle rpm during the running sync process and pilot screw fine tuning adjustments.
Here's a tip about bench sync that might not be mentioned in the FSM.
When setting the slides to equal heights (with paper clip, drill bit, wire, or whatever), be sure to have the idle adjustment screw threads in approximate mid-position or at least in a position to assure that the slides may be lowered during the running sync. Neglecting this step may result in being unable to sufficiently lower the idle rpm. For example, when fine tuning the pilot air screws gets the idle rpm too high, it's important to have some threads remaining on the idle adjustment screw in order to reduce the idle speed.
www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/85578...-carb-sync-how#85676wiredgeorge wrote: The VM family of carburetors including the smoothbores already mention have mechanical slides. That is, the throttle cable pulls up on the throttle bellcrank which is bolted to the slide rod as are all four carb slide mechanisms. The tops being on or off make absolutely NO difference to the function of the slides... You can run the bike without the tops on any VM carb assembly including smoothbores. . . .
www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/920-v...ncronizing-hight#983wiredgeorge wrote: Synchronizing a carburetor assembly means all four slides open at the same time. There is no "main slide" only "a slide" in each carburetor. The smoothbores, like all VM series carburetors are happiest when synchronized while the bike is running using a manometer. If you are trying to bench synchronize these carburetors, bend back the holding tab on the hex head slotted screws in front of the sync screws and loosen the hex head slotted screws so the sync mechanism is free to move. Then loosen the locknut and adjust the slide height using the sync screws. There is probably a spec somewhere for setting these where they are barely open... like .5mm or something along those lines but I like to use long heavy-duty paper clips under each slide and open the slides with the idle adjust knob and then close it down on the paper clips. Then I like to adjust the slide height so that when pulling out a paper clip, each has the same feel when pulled. This adjusts the slide height at about 1mm but the slide can be closed again when the paper clips are out of the way. You can use bigger tools to set the height up to a point. At that point, the slides will be adjusted too high across the board and the idle adjust knob won't be able to shut the slides sufficiently to get idle down.
If only bench synced and pilot screws tuned with caps attached -- as recommended by Sudco -- and manometer or vac gauges readings are acceptable with a stable idle, I would leave well enough alone and not attempt to further adjust slide heights with caps removed. . . .
Good Fortune!
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
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- SWest
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- 10 22 2014
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Steve
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- Dirtyhands
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1977 KZ650B
KZ750H Motor Installed
gpz750 Intake cams Kz750 Exhaust Cams
VM28SS Mikuni Pumper Carbs
Elecrosport Stator and Regulator Rectifier
Dyna 3ohm coils
Derale Oil Cooler
4into1 delkevic Pipes
Pod Airfilters
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- SWest
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- 10 22 2014
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Steve
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- 650ed
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Dirtyhands wrote: ... I put a bit of oil in that cylinder and got 170 out of it! Does this indicate that the rings are pretty beat in that cylinder? .....
Not necessarily. Take a look at the link below. Adding oil will always make the compression readings go up even in a perfect engine. Ed
www.kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597329-major-problem#663128
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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- Dirtyhands
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1977 KZ650B
KZ750H Motor Installed
gpz750 Intake cams Kz750 Exhaust Cams
VM28SS Mikuni Pumper Carbs
Elecrosport Stator and Regulator Rectifier
Dyna 3ohm coils
Derale Oil Cooler
4into1 delkevic Pipes
Pod Airfilters
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- Dirtyhands
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1977 KZ650B
KZ750H Motor Installed
gpz750 Intake cams Kz750 Exhaust Cams
VM28SS Mikuni Pumper Carbs
Elecrosport Stator and Regulator Rectifier
Dyna 3ohm coils
Derale Oil Cooler
4into1 delkevic Pipes
Pod Airfilters
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- SWest
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- 10 22 2014
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Been there.
Steve
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- Dirtyhands
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I've checked the valves and these are my numbers
#1 (Cyl#1 Exhaust) .005 inch (.127mm)
#2 (Cyl#2 Exhaust) .006 inch (.152mm)
#3 (Cyl#3 Exhaust) .006 inch (.152mm)
#4 (cyl#4 Exhaust) .005 inch (.127mm)
#5 (Cyl#1 intake) .005 inch (.127mm)
#6 (Cyl#2 intake) .006 inch (.152mm)
#7 (Cyl#3 intake) .005 inch (.127mm)
#8 (Cyl#4 intake) .004 inch (.102mm)
will going a shim size smaller in #8 help . As for the others are the fine where they are or is it better to be over rather than under the specified lift?
1977 KZ650B
KZ750H Motor Installed
gpz750 Intake cams Kz750 Exhaust Cams
VM28SS Mikuni Pumper Carbs
Elecrosport Stator and Regulator Rectifier
Dyna 3ohm coils
Derale Oil Cooler
4into1 delkevic Pipes
Pod Airfilters
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- Dirtyhands
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1977 KZ650B
KZ750H Motor Installed
gpz750 Intake cams Kz750 Exhaust Cams
VM28SS Mikuni Pumper Carbs
Elecrosport Stator and Regulator Rectifier
Dyna 3ohm coils
Derale Oil Cooler
4into1 delkevic Pipes
Pod Airfilters
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- SWest
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- 10 22 2014
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Steve
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