Premium Fuel?

It costs me about $.08/Gal of gas including the Lucas #10013 Fuel treatment. I say that because I run that in every tank regardless, to keep my fuel system and combustion chambers clean. So technically it should not be counted in the costing of the additive. This is added to regular gas in the van @ $2.90/Gal. This increases my cost by 2.5% it increases my millage in the van by about 20% or better. On the Jaguar it has increased my millage by about 18% or better.

Interesting topic. There is some unused energy in gasoline which is incompletely oxygenated at the time of combustion, hence the unburned hydrocarbons in exhaust. The platinum faces of the cat converter cause these to burn (of course, at a place where it does no good and just creates heat).

The napthalene thing is interesting and has been around a while. It is available in a product called Bioperformance additive. They published fuel economy test results.

Interesting that the results vary so widely which would seem impossible if it actually increased the available power in the fuel itself (?) One car even showed a lower mpg result.

www.smartcatalyzer.com/english/pruebas/W...StudyFinalReport.pdf

Another thing I found out using a platimum vapor injection system: modern FI cars use a computer controlled feedback loop to adjust the richness of the mix corresponding to a certain value from the O2 sensor. That sensor reading corresponds to the amount of unburned HC in the exhaust. The system is designed assuming a specific amount of unburned fuel.

If you introduce a catalyst which more fully burns the fuel, the sensor will read that as a lean condition and react by keeping the injectors open longer to rich up the mix which could negate any fuel savings. In other words, to get the full benefit you would have to be able to recalibrate that O2 sensor operating point.

Another interesting point is this: how much "unburned energy" is left in the gas we burn in our engines? The answer is, depends on the engine. Clearly, better designed systems will get better flow. But as a ball park value, what percentage of the energy goes "unclaimed" when the fuel burns and could be converted to power by a proper catalyst?

A good estimate can be made based on the catalytic converter. What is an absolute fact is that the hot platinum causes the unburned HCs to burn in the converter, which is why the exhaust gas then has microscopically small amounts of HC left as it leaves the tailpipe.

One horsepower is 746 Watts. Lets say a 200 HP engine is leaving 5% of the gasoline unburned as incomplete combustion. That would leave about 10HP (about 7.5kW) to be burned in the cat converter which is smaller than a football. Clearly, cat converters run hot, but could one dissipate 7.5kW without melting? Maybe, but it might glow... Of course, you don't use the full HP all the time probably only about 1/4 of it.

Anyway, the point is that a "sanity check" leads one to think the amount of unburned energy in the fuel might be in the 5% - 10% range? If that's true, then mpg could not increase more than this by using a catalyst because that's how much energy you gain.

I thought 1 horsepower was 33,000 lb.ft./minute. James Watt did the calculation on his first steam engine with a real horse. Where does the 746 watts come into play. I have never heard of the electrical watt for HP only James Watt. Just curious as I am no science guy

Kawickrice wrote:

I thought 1 horsepower was 33,000 lb.ft./minute. James Watt did the calculation on his first steam engine with a real horse. Where does the 746 watts come into play. I have never heard of the electrical watt for HP only James Watt. Just curious as I am no science guy

Think electric motors, look at the FLA on the data plate and divide it by 746 to get optimistic hp, subtract about 20% to get actual hp.


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BountyHunter, how does an O2 (oxygen) sensor measure the hydrocarbons in the exhaust?

Let me give you a little help.
If there is no oxygen in the exhaust then the lookup table will indicate a rich mixture, if lot's of oxygen in the exhaust then the lookup table will say it's lean. The lookup table of course being programmed into the computer.

O2 sensors in most (about 90%) cars are narrow band, they can tell you if it's rich or lean, but not by how much. Wide band sensors usually cover 10:1-20:1 or so.

1hp = 740w = 12,000+/- BTU The results on the Dodge Ram 2500 van have been done over a period of one year. The results on the Jaguar over a period of 6 Months. Alternating fuel, four tanks with additive and four tanks without. Over and over. Fueling up at the exact same gas station every time on the van and three different stations on the Jaguar. On the Jaguar it is simple because the computer tels me the MPG right on the display. I think you guys missed the point. Increasing the energy density equates to more available BTU/Gal I am doing this test with the help of a couple of PHDs at Argonne National Laboratory. The complex is walking distance from my home.

steell wrote:

Kawickrice wrote:

I thought 1 horsepower was 33,000 lb.ft./minute. James Watt did the calculation on his first steam engine with a real horse. Where does the 746 watts come into play. I have never heard of the electrical watt for HP only James Watt. Just curious as I am no science guy

Think electric motors, look at the FLA on the data plate and divide it by 746 to get optimistic hp, subtract about 20% to get actual hp.


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BountyHunter, how does an O2 (oxygen) sensor measure the hydrocarbons in the exhaust?

It measures it indirectly, and I actually referred to UNBURNED HC's.:

Automotive oxygen sensors, colloquially known as O2 sensors, make modern electronic fuel injection and emission control possible. They help determine, in real time, if the air fuel ratio of a combustion engine is rich or lean. ////

The sensor does not actually measure oxygen concentration, but rather the amount of oxygen needed to completely oxidize any remaining combustibles in the exhaust gas.

the unburned fuel that was not burned during the combustion process was not oxygenated into a burnable form, hence it didn't burn. That means it will show up as demanding oxygen to the O2 sensor.

My point is: the lean/rich control loop is designed around a specific percentage of fuel going unburned into the exhaust stream at the "optimum" rich/lean point, some claim as much as 20% of the fuel goes unburned I would say maybe 10%. If you add a catalyst causing all the fuel to burn, that will throw the calibration point off from optimum because the unburned HC's are no longer there asking to be oxygenated. The control loop will rich up the mix until it sees the sensor value it saw before the combustion efficiency was increased.

otakar wrote:

1hp = 740w = 12,000+/- BTU The results on the Dodge Ram 2500 van have been done over a period of one year. The results on the Jaguar over a period of 6 Months. Alternating fuel, four tanks with additive and four tanks without. Over and over. Fueling up at the exact same gas station every time on the van and three different stations on the Jaguar. On the Jaguar it is simple because the computer tels me the MPG right on the display. I think you guys missed the point. Increasing the energy density equates to more available BTU/Gal I am doing this test with the help of a couple of PHDs at Argonne National Laboratory. The complex is walking distance from my home.

How does adding napthalene increase energy density? The references I saw only say it increases octane which does not change energy density.

bountyhunter wrote:

How does adding napthalene increase energy density? The references I saw only say it increases octane which does not change energy density.

Naphthalene is basicall distilled coal tar, or at least as far as I remember.

If you use too much, it can SERIOUSLY gunk up your engine with massive carbon deposits, as it produces a very dirty burn in over-abundance. It is OK to use though, and has some benefits, I think its a PITA personally. I just pump the cheap shit, and twist the throttle harder, bet eh!, thats my opinion! :laugh:

One thing I know for sure is that it will gum up your cat, but it doesnt kill it, just makes it hell a dirty. :laugh:

If your engine doesnt require additional octane, it will not extract more power from a higher octane rated anything you put in it.

It is always good to check what octane works best with modified engines, but stock is stock, go by the book and dont look back.

Naphthalene WILL NOT increase octane of modern fuels by more than a fraction of a %. It however is a complex energy dense hydrocarbon. I am supplying you with results which I have achieved, and with the cooperation with Argonne engineers. What you do with this information (or not do) is up to you. All I know is that it saves me about 20% in real $s on fuel costs on my cars. That is all I require to know. I do NOT run it in my bike because fuel cost is not an issue at 40+ mpg. Yes if used in access Naphthalene will burn very dirty if used in over abundance. This over abundance is about 10x or more of what I am using. The old formula when octane of motor fuel was about 40 octane was about 12 balls/Gal of gas. This raised the octane rating by about 50%, to about 60 octane. Xylene and Toluene however will raise octane by quite a bit on even modern fuels. If you read the entire post, that is where this discussion came from. I only answered the comment about "Moth Balls" and how I use them and for what purpose, and how it works for me. If you have not done any real tests your selves and have only opinions

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well you know what they say about opinions. I know what I know because of the actual testing which I have personally done. Take it or leave it.

To explain further:

Here is a reference echoing what I had brought up before: the current supplier of the "gas saver" pills (Bioperformance fuel additive) have been chemically verified to be 100% napthalene.

Their claim is that they "catalyze" the fuel reaction and liberate energy from fuel that previously went unburned:

"How do the gas pills work?

The gas pills allegedly have the property of modifying the fuel’s molecular structure and liberating the energy contained within. These claims are questioned with the revelation that the product is primarily Naphthalene (mothballs). "

Well, maybe that's possible. But, my point was that the O2 sensor is calibrated to see a specific amount of unburned HCs in the exhaust at it's optimum set point and significantly increasing the combustion efficiency will screw that up:

" O2 Sensor Correction

Fuel injected vehicles, that utilize narrowband oxygen sensors, produce a lean signal with use of the BP product; ECUs compensate lean air/fuel mixture by adding more fuel, which will effectively diminish potential gas mileage improvements to negligible. A product (EFIE) is available from eagle-research.com that will remedy this. Cars that have had this installed, and which were not getting improvement with BioPerformance, observed increased effectiveness of the BP product. "


peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:BioPerformance_Fuel

They were also fined and ordered by the Texas AG and told to stop making any claims of:

" 1. Will reduce the emission of gasoline or diesel powered vehicles;
2. Improve gasoline efficiency or fuel economy of gasoline or diesel powered vehicles;or
3. Are safe and non-toxic."

They added this disclaimer to the bottle's label:

"The testimonies have not been proven in any way by BioPerformance, Inc. to be true, because they are simply people sharing their results from using BioPerformance Fuel. The testimonies are valuable replies from your fellow Americans. Each reply is believed to be true in its content. These stories are not backed by independent research, so you must evaluate them for yourself and then let us hear your own story."



The "non tovic" thing is humorous because napthalene is extremely carcinogenic from even skin contact or breathing of fumes.

Regarding the fumes:

" How to Manage the Odor

The BioPerformance Fuel product has a very strong odor resembling moth balls. It tends to permeate the bottle and box in which it is shipped. It can stink up your car . . . unless:

Remedies:

* Placing the bottle inside a mason jar eliminates the smell entirely.
* Putting the bottle inside a ziplock bag cuts down on the smell tremendously.
* Use disposable latex gloves when handling the product to keep the smell of your hands. The gloves can be purchased inexpensively from drug stores and pharmacies. "

and:

"May 2006 (EDT)

A BP dealer phoned and told of a person who was helping him put the pills into baggies to send out as samples for people to try the product. After half a day she looked pale, and had to go home. She was unable to work for a week, she was so sick from her exposure to the product. SilverThunder 00:00, 22 May 2006 (EDT) "


Hence my curiosity as to how napthalene increases energy density of the fuel. I haven't been able to find any reference that says it can and was wondering if there was such a reference.