Has anyone had problems with new camshaft bearings?

Scirocco wrote:

Don´t buy shims from unkown sources, to many china clones with less surface hardness (Brinell, Vickers, Rockwell).

The last ones I bought, the guy said they were original K&L, but when a darker one arrived with a diameter greater than 29mm, I was already suspicious.
 

Ebay retro-motorcycles "99.5% positive"

When I feel like it again, I'm going to buy at the store in Germany that you recommend.

thank you so much

 

MLMG wrote:

Scirocco wrote:

Don´t buy shims from unkown sources, to many china clones with less surface hardness (Brinell, Vickers, Rockwell).

The last ones I bought, the guy said they were original K&L, but when a darker one arrived with a diameter greater than 29mm, I was already suspicious.
 

Ebay retro-motorcycles "99.5% positive"

When I feel like it again, I'm going to buy at the store in Germany that you recommend.

thank you so much


 

29.5mm shim is for Suzuki GS1000 etc.

I bought shims on the website www.tills.de that Scirocco suggested to me.

They came in two types, one darker like the one in the image with the large name separated by a hyphen.



And others clearer identical to those sold by Z1E.

I had the engine running for two minutes and the clearer ones showed signs of wear.

The truth is that things are complicated, where do you buy original shims?

It is a pity the number of failures and discouragement that will be seen because of the scrap they sell.

MLMG wrote:

Wookie58 wrote:

What cam chain tensioner are you using? (if the chain is too tight it will pull the cams down against the oil feed holes and could restrict flow) Have you checked clearance with plastigauge?

I'm using an APE chain tensioner, I hand-tighten it very delicately.

Also change the camshaft bearings for original Kawasaki ones.

The trees rotated freely.
youtube.com/shorts/T779pBR6w70

My thought is that if it were a lubrication problem, a bearing would already have failed.

see other similar problems in the forum.




 

I leave the links


kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/616881-z1r-spat-out-a-shim?start=12

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/617690-is-my-cam-toast

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/617435-strange-cam-lobe-wear-pattern





 

We've never seen shims with what looks like parallel mill marks.

  Of additional concern is, the large, light dot in the center of the shim that's surrounded by a darker halo, and has a feature visible through the dot's axis.  That is the exact wear pattern caused by early Z1 shim buckets (PN# 12032-004) that weren't machined perfectly flat, leaving a 'navel' around which the shim would rock, leading to shims fracturing. The feature through the axis may be the beginning of a fracture.

  Mama Kaw issued a recall (Svc. Bulletin SER 73 Z-13, dated 6-21-73) to replace the early Z1 shim buckets with correctly-machined items (PN# 12032-005) sans the 'navel'.  See below.




We've seen old-style buckets with the 'navels, in the wild for decades; in motors, at swap meets and at independent shops in their used parts bins.

Shims with the navel 'dot' should be discarded, as microscopic fracture fatigue may have begun to develop internally.  Reuse at your own risk.

Are you certain the shim buckets in your motor are factory-original to your motor, sans 'navel' ?

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

Where else could you find this level of product knowledge and expertise 

Those navel buckets were used on the early engines probably up to around #2000 but they should have been replaced under warranty. When I purchased my Oct 72 bike it still had the old buckets in place so it is worth a check to see if  you may have those old buckets installed.

slmjim+Z1BEBE wrote:

MLMG wrote:

Wookie58 wrote:

What cam chain tensioner are you using? (if the chain is too tight it will pull the cams down against the oil feed holes and could restrict flow) Have you checked clearance with plastigauge?

I'm using an APE chain tensioner, I hand-tighten it very delicately.

Also change the camshaft bearings for original Kawasaki ones.

The trees rotated freely.
youtube.com/shorts/T779pBR6w70

My thought is that if it were a lubrication problem, a bearing would already have failed.

see other similar problems in the forum.




 

I leave the links


kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/616881-z1r-spat-out-a-shim?start=12

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/617690-is-my-cam-toast

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/617435-strange-cam-lobe-wear-pattern








 

We've never seen shims with what looks like parallel mill marks.

  Of additional concern is, the large, light dot in the center of the shim that's surrounded by a darker halo, and has a feature visible through the dot's axis.  That is the exact wear pattern caused by early Z1 shim buckets (PN# 12032-004) that weren't machined perfectly flat, leaving a 'navel' around which the shim would rock, leading to shims fracturing. The feature through the axis may be the beginning of a fracture.

  Mama Kaw issued a recall (Svc. Bulletin SER 73 Z-13, dated 6-21-73) to replace the early Z1 shim buckets with correctly-machined items (PN# 12032-005) sans the 'navel'.  See below.

We've seen old-style buckets with the 'navels, in the wild for decades; in motors, at swap meets and at independent shops in their used parts bins.

Shims with the navel 'dot' should be discarded, as microscopic fracture fatigue may have begun to develop internally.  Reuse at your own risk.

Are you certain the shim buckets in your motor are factory-original to your motor, sans 'navel' ?

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

The image you refer to is not mine, it belongs to another forum member with a similar problem.

My engine uses buckets without a navel.

The image below does belong to the shims of my engine.

 

I already look like a collector. 

This is a very strange scenario !! Have you tried painting the shims with "engineers blue" dye then rotating the engine manually to get a clear idea of how the cams are contacting the shims? Also when rotating the engine do the buckets/valves rotate as they are intended to during the opening and closing motion?

With regards to the shim damage.
Have the valve stems been tipped and if so have they been done correctly and square.
I've seen this type of damage due to  tipped valves that are ground uneven and aren't a true 90 degrees to the stem.
It causes the buckets to oscillate and rotate at an angle which causes the cam lobe edge to skip and dig in to the shim..

The circular wear marks shows a rotating bucket/valve/shim.
In my opinion the cam lob surface/profil is the master problem. Pics would be helpful.

Scirocco wrote:

The circular wear marks shows a rotating bucket/valve/shim.
In my opinion the cam lob surface/profil is the master problem. Pics would be helpful.

Completely agree, that was the reason I suggested the "marking dye" it should show which part of the lobe is contacting the shim and also if that rotation is smooth (there will be "skip" marks in the blue if not) Just my opinion 

Hello everyone.

The problem seems to have been solved, at least for now.

I could not leave the gaps as I wanted but worse is nothing.

After many tests and anger this is the conclusion.



The shim with the denomination in the center marked with an X is junk.

I have to mention that the guys at www.tills.de refunded my money after I reported the problem to them. It would be good to alert other sellers.