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TOPIC: Top-End Redo

Top-End Redo 17 Aug 2019 16:35 #809353

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old_kaw wrote:

daveo wrote: My old cylinder block is out of spec to re-ring my pistons, so the 1135 MTC kit is the-choice to keep this old girl up and running.

Decisions, decisions...perhaps it's time to :kiss: her goodbye. :)


You KNOW that it will drive you even >more< CrAzY if you get rid of that beauty. I know it's your therapy too, and you would just have to buy another project. SOON.

What happened to the old block you had stashed? Just a resizing and oversize pistons / rings will fix the oil consumption.

I must have lucked out. My bike only leaks oil (slightly LF O-ring) but does not smoke or burn oil, not even a little bit.

No matter what you decide, I know you will do a great job of fixing it. :)



:blush: You are probably right about one thing...except the last one.
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Top-End Redo 17 Aug 2019 16:55 #809354

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baldy110 wrote: Bumping up the compression to 10.25-1 is not going to stress the bottom end at all. It won't create excess heat either. Get the 1135 MTC kit you wont be sorry and there is no downside to it. The problem arrises when you bump compression a lot then add big cams, porting, bigger carbs, ect.. That will lead to excessive heat and stress but the bottom end of these engines are pretty stout. The engine Old Kaw is referring to was damaged by operator error and had nothing to do with the piston kit he installed Your over thinking this Daveo.



I appreciate all the encouragement to move forward. Working out the details, and may just go for it.

Will the OEM two-piece head gasket work properly with the MTC 1135 piston kit, for which I believe the bore size is 74mm?

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Top-End Redo 17 Aug 2019 19:13 #809358

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No it won't. A head gasket will come with the piston kit.
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Top-End Redo 17 Aug 2019 22:51 #809375

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baldy110 wrote: No it won't. A head gasket will come with the piston kit.


My KZ cylinder block has recesses for o-rings at the four corner stud holes, whereas the ZX cylinder block this MTC kit is made for does not . Considering that, will a special head gasket be required for my application?

:unsure:
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 10:45 #809392

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I wish I could answer your question Daveo, but I can't. I just wanted to say thanks for posting this thread as I am contemplating what to do with my KZ-1000 cylinders. I have two cylinders that have some pitting on the walls that seems to be the result of the pistons being parked in one spot for quite a while. The engine didn't seem to burn any oil, at least no smoke, before I took off the head for some work. So I am contemplating leaving it alone and putting it together and see how it runs, or pulling the cylinders off and going with oversized pistons based on how much material would have to be removed to eliminate the pitting on the cylinder walls. I am also undecided on going up in compression from stock. Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of gain just bumping up compression.
Rick H.
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 11:48 #809393

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Loosening the head on my engine caused the cylinder base gasket seal to break every time.

Wished I could tighten it up or just put the head back on, but without 100% confidence that would reseal it, it was head-first into the worm can again.

Now I have that hard-knock confidence, and think I know ahead of time what I'm in for.

:huh:
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 12:07 #809395

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Sounds like you would need a solid copper head-gasket.. You might try www.powersportsplace.com/parts/wis-w2717...saki/model/kz1000a-j Good luck...
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 12:17 #809396

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daveo wrote:

baldy110 wrote: No it won't. A head gasket will come with the piston kit.


My KZ cylinder block has recesses for o-rings at the four corner stud holes, whereas the ZX cylinder block this MTC kit is made for does not . Considering that, will a special head gasket be required for my application? :unsure:


OR, you could rig up one of your neato jigs and machine the ZN block to accept those overpriced goofy O-rings, much like you did to flycut your piston recesses.

And Yes, baldy is right the 2 scored pistons I mentioned were victims of operator error. The poster apparently thought that overheating a freshly assembled tight engine was a good thing. When you first start that motor, do not let it sit there running (no cooling system) . . Start it, hop on and YeHA! Like almost every thread on this forum, everything was "right" yet the pistons scored.. expensive mistake. go figger. :blink:
1981 Kawasaki Kz1000K1
Located in the Saint Louis, Missouri Area.
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 13:45 #809400

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I hate dealing with those goofy o-rings, but haven't had one leak since 2015, thanks to awesome advice from Jeff Saunders to install them dry. And the APE cylinder studs and nuts sealed the deal for sure!

Wish I had a nice low-mile ZN cylinder block to work with, but I don't. So, off the rods with my specially modified stock pistons and new set of rings I have waiting for them, and out with my wallet and every cent in it. :kiss:
Still undecided, but close.

With the one-piece copper gasket, do I simply leave all the o-rings out including the center galley o-ring, and that's it?


I gotta stop over-thinking this...

:S
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 15:05 #809410

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I believe that's correct. If you don't get a more definitive answer try contacting APE, they will know. kzzone.com/gaskets.html
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 15:13 #809412

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daveo wrote: I hate dealing with those goofy o-rings, but haven't had one leak since 2015, thanks to awesome advice from Jeff Saunders to install them dry. And the APE cylinder studs and nuts sealed the deal for sure!

Wish I had a nice low-mile ZN cylinder block to work with, but I don't. So, off the rods with my specially modified stock pistons and new set of rings I have waiting for them, and out with my wallet and every cent in it. :kiss:
Still undecided, but close.

With the one-piece copper gasket, do I simply leave all the o-rings out including the center galley o-ring, and that's it?


I gotta stop over-thinking this...

:S


I dont think the copper gasket is the one you want .
Probably one piece composite from Cometic
Dave
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Mr Turbo Race Kit, MTC 1075 Turbo pistons by PitStopPerformance , Falicon Ultra Lite Super Crank, APE everything. Les Holt @ PDM's Billet Goodies . Frame by Chuck Kurzawa @ Logghe Chassis . Deep sump 5qt oil pan. RIP Bill Hahn
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 15:54 #809413

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Copper ones are for race and tend to weep.
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 17:16 #809414

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urankjj wrote: I believe that's correct. If you don't get a more definitive answer try contacting APE, they will know. kzzone.com/gaskets.html


APE Part number K8325 (2-PC) MLS/COT Spring Steel or Graphite(?) may well-be what I need.

aperaceparts.com/resources/APE%20Catalog/mobile/index.html#p=76


:whistle:
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 17:28 #809415

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I believe that also is correct, but a solid copper gasket being re-torqueable may negate the weeping. I just checked on my bike, ( 1327cc, 10.25 comp, 1977 KZ1000), and I do have a composite head gasket with what looks like Blue RTV sealant. But keep in my mind that my engine was built in the late 1980's. Good luck and more power to ya!!!
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 18:01 #809420

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Copper head gaskets are used in race motors with turbos and or very high compression.
When using a copper head gasket you have to install wire o rings into machined grooves around each cylinder .
Im sure our membership is split in opinion between 2 pc gaskets plus using the center o ring vs the one peice gaskets
As well as to what brand to use . OEM vs Cometic
You need to use what makes sense to you
Dave
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 18:33 #809427

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I do not believe that you absolutely have to incorporate any O-rings at all when using a solid copper head gasket, even if the engine block in question is machined for O-rings.
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 18:38 #809428

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Would someone please explain why the Genuine Kawasaki two-piece gasket will not work with the MTC 1135 (74mm bore) piston kit, considering it would likely be the gasket used with Genuine Kawasaki oversize pistons?




:)
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 18:39 #809429

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urankjj wrote: I do not believe that you absolutely have to incorporate any O-rings at all when using a solid copper head gasket, even if the engine block in question is machined for O-rings.


I used to use rubber o rings around the cylinder studs that have oil galleries. ..I had good success with this method
But stainless steel wires around the cylinders is a must with a copper head gasket
Yes they can be reused with proper prepping
On the current rebuild I used I think yamabond . 99 percent sure thats it
Joe Hooper at Pitstop has published here and on his site a guide for KZ overhauls which is very good advise
Just my 2cts
Dave
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 18:53 #809430

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daveo wrote: Would someone please explain why the Genuine Kawasaki two-piece gasket will not work with the MTC 1135 (74mm bore) piston kit, considering it would likely be the gasket used with Genuine Kawasaki oversize pistons?



:)


Dave
If your head gasket hangs into the cylinder by even a small amount as your mic shows the gasket metal surround wont be
in the proper space to be clamped down for a proper seal. Next the gasket will be more exposed to combustion heat and premature failure.
Next the gasket will be exposed to carbon buildup which cant be good, for detonation
Dave
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Top-End Redo 18 Aug 2019 18:54 #809431

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Copper head gaskets have been used on Street bikes as long as I can remember. I chose the Cometic one piece so I didn't have that damn O ring that will fail eventually. On my rebuild in 13 I ordered the complete gasket kit and the O ring failed the first year. Inferior? Maybe but will not use NOS rubber anywhere on my bike. Was talked out of the copper gasket by the salesman saying it will weep. Same guy that GANKED me on other items he sold me. :angry: I remember CB 750 big bore engines weeping oil along with others in the day. I should have just ordered one and used the copper spray. I might still have it now. :unsure:
Steve
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kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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