Valve Noise/No compression

What tool are you using to remove the shims ? Is it the one that clips on the head with a finger the touches the bucket? Do you have to rotate the engine to get the shim tool to function.

I am using the took the you tighten down on the side of the engine and it holds the bucket down while you rotate the engineo tget the shim out. I do have to hold the bucket down to get the shim out. Will having the valve adjustment too loose cause the cyclinder not to get hot like the other plugs ?

The original valve tool that was available from Kawasaki was problematic. The big K at one time figures that a good percentage of the Z1's running had damaged valves. The reason is that when you locked down a particular valve and rotated the engine one could make contact with the piston if not careful. Was it this tool:

Here is a pic of valve tools that were for the 900-1000 4 cylinder engines:

A: was for Yamaha 4 but the magnet pick was from K

B: Was the best tool took some clearancing to make it work but it was quick

C1: Kawasaki rep called me and said they had a new prototype tool and I should get it ASAP which I did. It was a flippin craftsman screw driver cut down, I couldn't belive it.

C2: Was Kawasaki's production tool

C3: Was mine build after seeing C1

C4: was the bucket hold down wedge that came with C1 and C2

Lt. Dan, I am using the first tool that you showed in the picture by itself. I have received larger shims from Z1, so I will be installing them and see if it fixes the problem that I am having with the #3 cylinder not firing correctly.

You need to do a compression check

The last time that I checked the compression, they were all between 95 and 105 psi. That was before the valves were adjusted. Since all of the valves are now within tolerances, should the compression be higher ?

BIGKEVIN wrote: The last time that I checked the compression, they were all between 95 and 105 psi. That was before the valves were adjusted. Since all of the valves are now within tolerances, should the compression be higher ?

Adjusting the valve clearances to spec by increasing the clearances from minimal clearance should have no effect on cold compression figures.
Because the valves are closing, when cold, even with minimal clearance.
But that doesn't mean they're completely sealing when closed, as the seat and/or valve head may be damaged or worn.

If one or more valves had zero clearance when cold, it was probably leaking due to not completely closing. And adjusting clearance to spec should at least allow the valve to close, regardless of whether it completely seals when closed.

With clearance to spec, the valve will "close" but being "closed" doesn't necessarily mean that the "closed" valve is completely sealing when its closed.

The "cold" clearance is to assure "some" clearance still exists at normal operating temperature.

Now that the valve clearances have all been adjusted to spec, would repeat the compression test.

Good Fortune!

On each cylinder, after doing a "dry" compression test, would immediately do a "wet" compression test.

The "wet" compression test means after adding a teaspoon of motor oil into the compression chamber through the spark plug hole.

If compression is being lost past the rings, the extra oil usually increases the compression figure, provided the valves are completely sealing.

If the extra oil has no effect on the compression figure, would suspect that a closed valve isn't completely sealing (for whatever reason).

Good Fortune!

I believe there's problem with adding oil when checking compression. The idea, of course, is to add oil so any gap between the rings and the cylinder walls will be sealed. Once that is accomplished, any compression leakage must be through the valves or the cylinder head gasket. So far, so good.

HOWEVER - using a KZ650 as an example, when the piston is at top dead center there is precious little open space above it because of the 9.5 to 1 compression ratio. The volume of each cylinder is 163cc with the piston at bottom dead center but only roughly 17cc when the piston it is at top dead center. So if you add let's say 5cc (which is 1 teaspoon) of oil to one of those cylinders you have reduced the compressed cylinder volume by nearly a third which will drive the PSI on the gauge very high. So any cylinder with oil added should naturally show higher compression regardless of the condition of the rings. What makes matters worse, if you don't add EXACTLY the same amount of oil to each cylinder the pressure readings between cylinders can vary wildly.

I know lots of folks use the "add oil" method, and maybe there's something fundamental I simply don't understand about the method, but I suspect a better way to determine if the low compression is cause by rings or valves is to perform a leakdown test. Ed

Standing alone, the actual wet test compression figures aren't particularly useful.
Their significance rests in comparison with the dry test figures for each individual cylinder.

When the dry test figures are low, the main idea of the "wet" compression test is to determine whether compression noticeably increases over the dry test -- being concerned with the difference in the figures, and not being particularly concerned with the actual psi figures involved.

If compression significantly increases with the wet test, it's evidence that the closed valves are actually sealing when seated. Otherwise the compression would be lost through a poorly sealed "closed" valve.

Conversely, if compression doesn't significantly increase with the wet test, it's evidence that one or both of the closed valves aren't actually sealing when seated (for whatever reason).

As known, a leak down test injects air pressure through the spark plug hole to pressurize the combustion chamber.

Can perform a poor man's leak down test by introducing compressed air into a spark plug hole and listening to where it escapes from the combustion clamber. This may be done at TDC or any other cam positions where both valves are fully closed. Top dead center (TDC) is when the piston is at its highest position. An easy way to tell TDC is by alignment of the T mark with the case mark when viewed through the timing window.

May introduce a spurt of compressed air by using a rubber cone-tip blow gun (rubber air nozzle) held into the spark plug hole. And of course keep holding it in position to keep air from coming back out the spark plug hole while listening for escaping air at other places. The air compressor should not be running while listening because the noise will likely drown out any sound of escaping air.

Air heard escaping from exhaust port indicates exhaust valve not fully closing (perhaps too tight clearance or damaged valve or valve seat).

Air heard escaping from carb intake indicates intake valve not fully closing (perhaps too tight clearance or damaged valve or valve seat).

Air heard escaping from crankcase breather indicates loss of compression past rings into crankcase (perhaps worn piston rings or cylinders).

Air heard escaping from head gasket area indicates indicates loss of compression past head gasket (perhaps due to a blown head gasket).

A leaking valve may sometimes be resolved by adjusting the clearance to within specs.

A leaking head gasket may sometimes be resolved by torquing the head fasteners when the engine is stone cold (such as after sitting overnight).

The leak down test is of course done "dry" without adding any oil to the combustion chamber.

Good Fortune!

I did a dry compression test today and have 140 psi from the #1 cyclinder, 120 psi from #2, 0 from #3, and 140 psi from #4. I just did a valve job and they are:

#1 intake - .102 is very snug
#1 exhaust - .127 largest that will fit
#2 intake - .063 largest that will fit
#2 exhaust - .102 largest that will fit
#3 intake - .076 largest that will fit
#3 exhaust - .102 largest that will fit
#4 intake - .102 largest that will fit
#4 exhaust - .127 largest that will fit.
I have checked the compression before and had compression. I checked the clearance for the heck of it while the motor was hot and a .152 gauage would fit. I am going to check all of the clearances tomorrow when the motor is cold. Could the clearance being too tight or too loose cause no compression at all ? Does the other measurements see OK ? Any idea what else could cause a loose of compression ? I want to check as much as possible while I have the valve cover removed.