Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC:

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 05:55 #533760

  • 750steve
  • 750steve's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 584
  • Thank you received: 3
Thanks for commenting Dave. Frankly, the more i look at this the more it scares the sheet outta me!!, mainly through lack of knowledge or unserstanding. 29mm smoothbores or 30mm flatsides might be the way i go ,we'll see.

You're right, the 07 ZX6 throttle bodies wont work & its alot to do with spacing. The Z650 carb spacing is 76-96-76. I'm trying to find some newer bodies that will be similar as GPz750 Turbo/GPz1100 ones seem to be non existant ATM. So far i've found 2007 ZR750 bodies internal dia is 32mm, ext dia is 52mm and center to centre sizes are 75-90-75......thats getting close to what i need! But, even at that i dunno if they'll have extra piping that i may not need to confuse it more?

I'll check the pump (any recommendations? Psi, brand etc?). Luckily the Z650 i have has the 3 phase charging system so it has a tiny bit more 'oomph'.

1 thing thats really frying my head.......a VR sensor? What is it, where do you get it, how do you install it & what does it do?? I read articles but get lost half way through.

Also, what is the toothed wheel im reading about for & would i need to change ignition? (Remember i'll be using a 750 Zephyr engine)
07 ZX6R Race Bike
1977 Z750 B2 Twin
1976 Z650 B1

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 07:17 #533765

  • Dave Sloan
  • Dave Sloan's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 239
  • Thank you received: 3
├Żou should be able to use those zr750 tbs and just adjust the centre spacing, I believe that the 1mm difference on the outers can be taken up by the carb rubbers.
Vr sensor is the pick up that reads the timing wheel on the end of the crank. You can run fuel only until you are a bit more comfortable with it.
The toothed wheel basically tells the ecu what position the crank is in so that it knows when to fire the coils.
The only piping you should need is to the fuel rail, f/rail to fuel reg and reg return to tank
I use a std gpz1100 pump , tbs, fuel reg and injectors. Std pump only draws 3 amps, Im not sure what the in tank pumps pull from the newer bikes.
Have read of these manuals, they might make things a bit clearer.
This is the original bowling and grippo ms manual
www.megamanual.com/mtabcon.htm
And this is the msextra manual. The extra code is the one that has a lot of extra features, bigger tables etc.
www.msextra.com/doc/index.html

Hope it helps
Z650B2 - Injected

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 07:47 #533770

  • 750steve
  • 750steve's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 584
  • Thank you received: 3
Thanks Dave, i'll take a good look at those articles when im home tonight & can gt some peace to do so. I didn't realise you could run fuel only!! ..... that just might be a good option! Is that not as effective as running fiel & ignition Dave? Im pretty certain the 750 Zephyr runs an electronic ignition
07 ZX6R Race Bike
1977 Z750 B2 Twin
1976 Z650 B1

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 09:20 #533778

  • 750steve
  • 750steve's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 584
  • Thank you received: 3
Just found out Suzuki GSF650 Bandit TB sizes are 35mm. Spacing is 78-96-78.

Don't forget i'm probably relying on someone standing with a ruler measuring these measurements so there might be slight inaccuracies
07 ZX6R Race Bike
1977 Z750 B2 Twin
1976 Z650 B1
The following user(s) said Thank You: Boostable

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 10:02 #533781

  • Boostable
  • Boostable's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 539
  • Thank you received: 13
Nice to see someone else jumping on the FI bandwagon. I am about to update my build thread on my bike with some progress and hope to have mine running next weekend. Anyway on to the topic at hand.

You can use damn near any TB as long as you can get the spacing right. As these guys have already said the size of the TB will dictate the sensitivity and smoothness of the power delivery. Small TB will require more throttle opening, larger will require less. I don't see you having a "to small" issue and I personally won't mind not having to twist my throttle so much.

I looked at both 636 and 10R TB's for my build and opted for the 10's They are obviously larger then the GPZ's, but I wanted a more modern TB. I only had to space them out 6mm and they line up damn near perfect. I had to use the large boots from APE and then use tapper sleeves to mount the large TB's

You can see that detail here.
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/479844...r?limit=20&start=180

Also, on the injectors just consider that with FI you have the ability to manipulate the firing duration to get you the correct amount of fuel. The higher RPM you run the larger injector you will need to get the necessary fuel up top, as your RPM rises you don't have as much time to deliver the necessary fuel, so a larger injector is necessary to do that. Regardless, I think if you start with TB's/Injectors from roughly the same size bike you will be well within the range of acceptability and be able to tune it to where you need it.

On the VR/Pickup side, I am 90% sure that I can run my MS with the stock or Dyna pickups. I have tested this on the bench, but have not validated this on the bike, so I can't say 100%. I will know for sure in the next two weeks.

Last but not least, Mega or Micro, well that's up to you. I am using the Microsquirt and I am very happy with it thus far. Space is at a premium on the bikes and the Micro is a plug and play sealed unit, perfect for the bike.

Anyway, I know it looks complicated but just take it slow, get your ducks in a row and you can always come here for support... or to vent!! :laugh:
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 15:33 #533838

  • steell
  • steell's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 6855
  • Thank you received: 206

750steve wrote: Thanks Dave, i'll take a good look at those articles when im home tonight & can gt some peace to do so.


It's gonna take more than one evening reading! More like a week! The name "MegaManual" is oddly appropriate :P

Regarding the ZX10 throttle bodies, those are 43mm if off a 04-05 ZX10R, and feed a 160-175 hp motor that turns ~12500 rpm. I have a set of them for my ZZR1200 motor after I get the ZX12 motor back together. You'd be a whole lot better off with 36mm-38mm throttle bodies in my opinion. Yamaha R6 throttle bodies look like CV carbs and are 38mm. Kawasaki used throttle bodies that were too large on the 2000-2001 ZX12, they added sub throttles to them in 2002 or 03 to bring back some drivability.

Same deal applies to the 650/750/810. 84-85 750 Turbo will make 150 rwhp with 33mm throttle bodies, while the stock GPz1100 made 120 hp with 34mm, with room for more. Why would you need larger? And don't tell me you can't find any, all you need to do is send me a PM with your address and pay shipping.

650/750/900/1000/1100 carb spacing is generally listed at 75-95-75, and ZX11/ZZR1200 is 75-85-75, and I have never found anything that is an exact match except the Turbo/1100 for the air cooled motors.

I have the following throttle bodies:
Yamaha FJ1300
Yamaha R6 (for the 750 twin)
Suzuki GSXR600
Suzuki GSXR1000
Kawasaki ZX10R (for the ZZR1200 motor)
And the 750 Turbo for Steve in Ireland :)

Not selling any of them, those are just ones I bought because someone claimed they were a direct fit, and they're not.

And 2000 ZX12R throttle bodies, but they're on the ZX12R.
KD9JUR

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by steell.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 16:21 #533843

  • Boostable
  • Boostable's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 539
  • Thank you received: 13
I agree 10R TB's are to big for his application, but im fine with using them for mine. :)
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 18:57 #533864

  • 750steve
  • 750steve's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 584
  • Thank you received: 3

Boostable wrote: Nice to see someone else jumping on the FI bandwagon. I am about to update my build thread on my bike with some progress and hope to have mine running next weekend. Anyway on to the topic at hand.

You can use damn near any TB as long as you can get the spacing right. As these guys have already said the size of the TB will dictate the sensitivity and smoothness of the power delivery. Small TB will require more throttle opening, larger will require less. I don't see you having a "to small" issue and I personally won't mind not having to twist my throttle so much.

I looked at both 636 and 10R TB's for my build and opted for the 10's They are obviously larger then the GPZ's, but I wanted a more modern TB. I only had to space them out 6mm and they line up damn near perfect. I had to use the large boots from APE and then use tapper sleeves to mount the large TB's

You can see that detail here.
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/479844...r?limit=20&start=180

Also, on the injectors just consider that with FI you have the ability to manipulate the firing duration to get you the correct amount of fuel. The higher RPM you run the larger injector you will need to get the necessary fuel up top, as your RPM rises you don't have as much time to deliver the necessary fuel, so a larger injector is necessary to do that. Regardless, I think if you start with TB's/Injectors from roughly the same size bike you will be well within the range of acceptability and be able to tune it to where you need it.

On the VR/Pickup side, I am 90% sure that I can run my MS with the stock or Dyna pickups. I have tested this on the bench, but have not validated this on the bike, so I can't say 100%. I will know for sure in the next two weeks.

Last but not least, Mega or Micro, well that's up to you. I am using the Microsquirt and I am very happy with it thus far. Space is at a premium on the bikes and the Micro is a plug and play sealed unit, perfect for the bike.

Anyway, I know it looks complicated but just take it slow, get your ducks in a row and you can always come here for support... or to vent!! :laugh:


Bloody hell dude thats 1 f'in serious build you got goin on there! Just subscribed to the thread!

I'll try to get my head around this 'mega or micro', 'ignition & fuel'....or both. Unfortunately im pretty certain i'll be the 1st person in Ireland to do this kinda conversion to a bike!.......but i like learning & a challenge (i hate useless spare parts though :lol: )

steell wrote: It's gonna take more than one evening reading! More like a week! The name "MegaManual" is oddly appropriate :P

Regarding the ZX10 throttle bodies, those are 43mm if off a 04-05 ZX10R, and feed a 160-175 hp motor that turns ~12500 rpm. I have a set of them for my ZZR1200 motor after I get the ZX12 motor back together. You'd be a whole lot better off with 36mm-38mm throttle bodies in my opinion. Yamaha R6 throttle bodies look like CV carbs and are 38mm. Kawasaki used throttle bodies that were too large on the 2000-2001 ZX12, they added sub throttles to them in 2002 or 03 to bring back some drivability.

Same deal applies to the 650/750/810. 84-85 750 Turbo will make 150 rwhp with 33mm throttle bodies, while the stock GPz1100 made 120 hp with 34mm, with room for more. Why would you need larger? And don't tell me you can't find any, all you need to do is send me a PM with your address and pay shipping.

650/750/900/1000/1100 carb spacing is generally listed at 75-95-75, and ZX11/ZZR1200 is 75-85-75, and I have never found anything that is an exact match except the Turbo/1100 for the air cooled motors.

I have the following throttle bodies:
Yamaha FJ1300
Yamaha R6 (for the 750 twin)
Suzuki GSXR600
Suzuki GSXR1000
Kawasaki ZX10R (for the ZZR1200 motor)
And the 750 Turbo for Steve in Ireland :)

Not selling any of them, those are just ones I bought because someone claimed they were a direct fit, and they're not.

And 2000 ZX12R throttle bodies, but they're on the ZX12R.


Steve......thanks for popping in again..........is there ANYTHING you dont know about these bikes man??, i'll never know what you've forgotten!

Hmmmm.....is that an offer for turbo bodies?? (to buy of course), by the way, I CANT FIND ANY!! :lol:

Where did you find the accurate spacing measurement for certain bodies, can they be looked up somewhere?

Those Turbo ones might just be my saviour but i'd really like to see if those GSF650 or ZR750 ones will fit too, will they need their injectors changed? & do they have any extra piping over the Turbo ones like vacuum pipes or something? (any weird stuff on your ZX10 ones?) Being 35 & 32mm bodies (so im informed) i think they'll be plenty big enough. One of the reasons im looking into the newer ones so much is that the injector loom/harness can be sourced easily off a newer bike, i wonder if i need to get the correct firing order though or can the mega/micro control that?

I'd like to look into if i can use plug caps with coils in them too..........just to make it more compicated

Now, i'd better get studying, last time i looked it honestly felt like someone had sliced my head in 2!!
07 ZX6R Race Bike
1977 Z750 B2 Twin
1976 Z650 B1

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by 750steve.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 19:34 #533871

  • Boostable
  • Boostable's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 539
  • Thank you received: 13

750steve wrote:
Bloody hell dude thats 1 f'in serious build you got goin on there! Just subscribed to the thread!

I'll try to get my head around this 'mega or micro', 'ignition & fuel'....or both. Unfortunately im pretty certain i'll be the 1st person in Ireland to do this kinda conversion to a bike!.......but i like learning & a challenge (i hate useless spare parts though :


Thanks man, it has been a lot of fun and challenging... Just the way I like it. Could not of done it without the guys on this forum!!!

Check out diyautotune.com for some things that will simplify your life!!
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 19:42 #533876

  • 750steve
  • 750steve's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 584
  • Thank you received: 3

Boostable wrote:
Check out diyautotune.com for some things that will simplify your life!!


I will! Do they do a 'mute' button for the wife? :lol:
07 ZX6R Race Bike
1977 Z750 B2 Twin
1976 Z650 B1

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 20:01 #533878

  • Boostable
  • Boostable's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 539
  • Thank you received: 13
Just do what I do... Start welding or grinding on something!! Works every time... LOL
~Jack

1982 KZ1000 J2 ~ Project (Street Fighter - Project Section)
1976 KZ900 - Daily Rider

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 04 Jul 2012 20:53 #533887

  • steell
  • steell's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 6855
  • Thank you received: 206
MicroSquirt has two injector channels, so the best you could do is inject in pairs. You could probably run four coils as wasted spark with add on drivers, MicroSquirt no longer has built in ignition drivers, it has two logic (5V) outputs for ignition.

On the other hand, MS2 with the addition of a board from JP Perf, can control four coils using four drivers, and four individual injectors, so you can have control of four cylinders injection and ignition individually. Kawasaki coil on plugs run around 1.2 ohms each.

That's what I have for the ZZR1200 motor in the ZX11 :P

Now I need to duplicate the above for the ZX12 :unsure:


Steve, the throttle bodies don't care what the wiring harness fits, just the TPS and injectors, and you can use the ones off later models. Injector plugs are available individually anyway.
And there's a MegaSquirt Dealer in the UK, and maybe one in Ireland.


Future info for anyone reading this, 2000-2002 or so Suzuki GSXR throttle bodies are individual and fairly easy to re-space.
KD9JUR

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by steell.
Powered by Kunena Forum