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TOPIC: Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 18 Jun 2013 04:21 #592834

  • 750steve
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This is the sensor i had in mind if mine doesn't work for some reason.

The hole in the cyl head is approx 17mm, the nose on this sensor is just under 13mm & the thread 9mm so only 4mm will locate

PROSPORT OIL/WATER TEMPERATURE SENSOR STANDARD 10mm METRIC FINE THREAD

07 ZX6R Race Bike
1977 Z750 B2 Twin
1976 Z650 B1

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Last edit: by 750steve.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 18 Jun 2013 06:43 #592838

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T_Dub wrote: Well right now on DIYautotune, a microsquirt is listed at $99,900 so its pretty much the deal of the century.

If anyone is interested, I have an Electromotive Tec II ECU with coils. I can't verify that it still works, but it should. I can test it though if someone was interested.

Here's what it looks like, its basically a full standalone engine management system, fully adjustable, ton of inputs.



Hi T_Dub

$99,900???? Surely that is missing a decimal somewhere? Not being a smart a#@&, Was curious myself until I saw that.
Thanks
TennesseeZ ED
Have 1975 Kawasaki Z1-B & 2003 Harley Davidson Heritage Softail Classic
Had Hondas, Harleys and many ,many Z Series Kaws both Std. & LTD's

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Last edit: by ed spangler. Reason: fix

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 18 Jun 2013 09:07 #592854

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750steve wrote: This is the sensor i had in mind if mine doesn't work for some reason.

The hole in the cyl head is approx 17mm, the nose on this sensor is just under 13mm & the thread 9mm so only 4mm will locate

PROSPORT OIL/WATER TEMPERATURE SENSOR STANDARD 10mm METRIC FINE THREAD

750Steve, I think that sensor is for direct contact to fluid. Not sure how well it will work when it has a air pocket inside its mounting hole. Think of it this way. When that sensor is screwed into a say thermostat housing, and the tip is in a flow of coolant, the threaded body is connected to the metal housing. When the water disappears, the gauge which was reading normal, now drops with no fluid to conduct the heat transfer. Then once the metal gets hot enough, the transfer starts from the metal. By then it is overheating severely. That was why I posted that 1 wire sensor, it is one I'm familiar with, and screws directly into the Cylinder Head on an Air Cooled Motor.
Since the controller needs a two wire sensor, I'd try to find one from an Injected Air Cooled Motor. One for metal heat transfer and not fluid immersion.
Otherwise one way to get better heat transfer may be to have the cavity contain a high temp grease for transfer. Big issue I see with that is the good possibility of creating hydraulic force when tightening the sensor. You don't want that, as it could crack the engine block easily. You would have to be Very careful trying to fill the air space.
You probably read this post: www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=38715
Then there is this also: www.ebay.com/gds/CHT-Gauges-for-Air-Cool...0000007206732/g.html

www.synerject.com/utility/generators/chts-p17-13 Doesn't show thread size. Might be worth a email to them. The tip length could be an issue also.
Then like you posted already, these are the others I know work with Air Cooled motors: www.digital-speedos.co.uk/temperature-se...led-engines-28-p.asp
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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Last edit: by Motor Head.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 18 Jun 2013 14:42 #592890

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Ed, when you edited the quote, you made it appear that the pic was of a MicroSquirt, when it's really a Electromotive Tec II ECU with coils mounted on it. Accidental I'm sure.

Here's the MicroSquirt, and only $299.00, the earlier price was just a place holder while waiting for the new version to arrive.


KD9JUR

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 18 Jun 2013 17:31 #592912

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Sorry!! Just asking the price clarification, didnt intend to confuse things. :( . Obviously, this is too complicated for me . Guess I'll just keep quiet and stay with Carburetors...sighhhh.....old . At least that's my excuse. :S :dry:
Have 1975 Kawasaki Z1-B & 2003 Harley Davidson Heritage Softail Classic
Had Hondas, Harleys and many ,many Z Series Kaws both Std. & LTD's

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 18 Jun 2013 23:01 #592984

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I thought about going the FI route but its too annoying to get it all working IMO, plus its adds about 10 more new things that can fail on the bike on any given time while riding...

It's an adventurous task for sure.
- 82 GPz1100injection
- 77 Kz1075 Supercharged
- 81 Yamaha TR-1
- 81 Yamaha xv920
Calgary

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 19 Jun 2013 00:44 #592999

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Sorry Ed, didn't mean to offend, just didn't want anyone thinking that was a MicroSquirt in that pic. Especially not a $99.000 one :P

If you're not adventurous, then it's better to find someone that is to do it for you.
There are shops that specialize in installing and tuning various MegaSquirts, and they seem to stay pretty busy.

It's certainly not for everyone, you need to be a decent wrench and electronics tech, to have a good reading ability, and a little patience. Learning curve is a little steep if you're just starting out.
KD9JUR

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 06 Jan 2018 12:02 #777005

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How are the various EFI projects running out there? Looks like a few years since this thread was active, but there is good information in these pages!

I am planning to EFI convert the '83 Spectre 750 project I have with Microsquirt. And Im curious about how others are using crank/cam trigger wheels.

I was initially hoping to purchase a C5 ignition, with the optical trigger setup that looks very nice. But after reading into the Microsquirt manual a 'high resolution' trigger wheel like the one used by C5 is not supported.

I could do a MS fuel only install with the C5 taking care of ignition, they even come with multiple timing maps. But I feel like that would be a half-hearted install vs using trigger wheels and sequential tuning. Going all the way to full sequential means trigger wheels, which could easily go on the crank, but I dont see an easy way to add the needed cam trigger wheel.

Does anyone have experience with fuel-only vs sequential injection install with a squirted KZ? Is it worth the trouble to go all the way for sequential? Not trying to build a drag stripper or land speed bike; driveability and reliability are higher on my priority list than outright power.
1983 KZ750 Spectre - non-running project purchase will need some serious love
2003 KLR 685 - farkled to the max
2016 Versys 650 - mostly stock for mile munching
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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 20 Mar 2018 15:08 #780520

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I'd like to know too. I've been hot to build one and it seeems like it's getting more accessable.
78 KZ650
82 KZ1000 LTD
99 ZRX 1100

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 20 Mar 2018 15:50 #780522

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I like to do a MS conversion on my project bike.
I have all parts twice like a GPZ1100UT throttle body with injectors,fuel pump,wiring, fuel pressure regulator, air/engine temp sensors, etc...
A KZR member called Dave Sloan, his dad did a MS on his KZ650, it is ruining great and the engine start at the first push of the starter button!
I am missing a write up for this like a basis map for the MS and so on....

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Last edit: by Scirocco.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 20 Mar 2018 21:49 #780542

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Has anyone considered using the tach drive for cam timing? I'm guessing the gear reduction makes it unusable?
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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 21 Mar 2018 06:21 #780555

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From 11 years ago...
78 KZ650
82 KZ1000 LTD
99 ZRX 1100

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 21 Mar 2018 13:08 #780571

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Saablord wrote: Has anyone considered using the tach drive for cam timing? I'm guessing the gear reduction makes it unusable?


That's a very interesting idea. Does anyone know the gear ratio between the cam and the tach output?

I haven't looked into this at all, but my impression is that the cam sensor is primarily needed to figure out which coil is on the compression stroke, and which is on the exhaust stroke. Is that correct? It seems to me that it should be able to do all of the rest of the timing based on crank position. But again, I've never looked into how the microsquirt uses the crank and cam inputs.

If we were super lucky with the cam gear ratio, it's possible the wheel speed sensor from the Z1R could be used on the tach cable as a sensor. On the Z1R this sensor is in-line with the speedo cable, right under the speedometer. It contains a reed switch and disk magnet with multiple poles. I don't recall the number of pulses per rev, but I can figure it out (I have a few).

If that ratio is not correct, a similar sensor could be made with the correct number of pulses per rev. This seems much easier than trying to add a cam sensor into the head.
'78 Z1-R in blue, '78 Z1-R in black, '78 Z1-R in pieces
'95 GPZ1100

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Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 03 Apr 2018 14:05 #781232

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Ok... I have been digging around the various pages on the mega/microsquirt site for info on the needed trigger signals on a 4-cylinder, I think this info is equally applicable for a 2-cyl

It appears that for a 4 cylinder with even firing intervals (every 180 degrees of crank rotation) a cam trigger wheel is NOT needed, a crank trigger with missing tooth will suffice. Basing this conclusion on this page (example setup #3) and some bits from other spots on their website Trigger Wheel Config

The cam wheel + crank wheel configuration is only required with odd firing inervals, like a v-twin or triple, and with applications requiring COP (coil-on plug); which I dont know an example of maybe some auto engines.

SO on a 4-cyl with even firing, a crank trigger with missing tooth can be used alone, with wasted spark configuration and batch fuel injection setup. The microsquirt cannot run 4 individual injectors AFAIK so 2 banks of 2 injectors each is how we setup for a 4-cyl . Along with using 2 coils, and 2 spark plugs tied to each coil.

These details are for what I consider a 'full install' which will include control of fuel and timing maps. A 'fuel only' install can be done by using the signals from the OEM timing system. To me its silly to do fuel only, the hard part will be the TB retrofitting, and plumbing the fuel lines/pump/regulator which has to be done regardless. From what I can tell right now, going from fuel only, to a full install only requires the addition of a trigger wheel/sensor and different coils.

I am doing a lot of reading off of links on this checklist page they have for an install, its equal parts helpful and confusing!
Microsquirt Quick Start Guide

I have sourced throttle bodies from a 2001 gsxr-600, with a fuel rail and injectors. The injectors from this bike are high-impedance (the good kind) and it looks like the throttle position sensor will be easy to wire up to the Microsquirt. The TB spacing with this rack is off but I think I will be trying to use flexible rubber boots to compensate for the offset rather than try to respace the TB rack. This TB setup came with a solid fuel rail which would have to be abandoned and replaced if the TB spacing changes. Im hoping some flexible boots between TB and intake tract will be easier than a new fuel rail. Removed the sub-throttle plates I do not want to have to deal with setting up idle-valve control looks like a potential headache.

Going to look at suitable trigger wheels and sensors next!
1983 KZ750 Spectre - non-running project purchase will need some serious love
2003 KLR 685 - farkled to the max
2016 Versys 650 - mostly stock for mile munching
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Last edit: by asphaltaddict33.

Megasquirt / Microsquirt a KZ 06 Dec 2019 20:43 #815010

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I think I'll be switching to EFI when I finally build my 810 motor.

This is a plan so far based to the simple and cheap setup listed a couple pages back:
-Microsquirt v2 or Megasquirt v1
-1983 gpz1100 TBs
-16065-1135 carb boots
-250cc highZ injectors I have laying around from a 1.8L Corolla. Hopefully they fit.
-bosch 69238 (0 580 453 483) fuel pump 100lph, which is about twice as big as it needs to be but the controller below will take care of that
- pwm control board for pump .
-Stock vr sensors used as ignition type 1a . I will some how lock the stock ignition advancer in place
-probably ditching the stock ignitor for bip373 or MS drivers
-83 gpz TPS or a custom TPS
-thermistor somewhere on the head
-MS map sensor

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Last edit: by Saablord.
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