- Posts: 5138
- Thank you received: 391
Mikunis won't idle down
- Motor Head
- Offline
- User
- FIX UP YOUR BIKE RIGHT AND CHEAP
Less
More
30 May 2011 11:31 #454317
by Motor Head
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Replied by Motor Head on topic Mikunis won't idle down
OK, that's the KZ motor? With the roller Cam chain? Pre 80?
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mark1122
- Offline
- User
- Keep twisting it
Less
More
- Posts: 5359
- Thank you received: 109
30 May 2011 11:35 - 30 May 2011 12:00 #454319
by mark1122
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.
~ ~ ~_@
~ ~ _- \,
~ (k) / (z)
Replied by mark1122 on topic Mikunis won't idle down
web still makes 118's for a kz1000. u can get #'s from them.
here are some # that Larry posted in the past.
Web cam spec’s
lift
Dur.
Dur. ---- Dur. ---
[ Ramp Rates ]
Grind .
@.020"
@.050" - @.100" ---- [20-50] - [20-100] - [50-100]
#45
0.415
268
244
220
24 --- 48--- 24
110
0.395
284
256
228
28 --- 56 28
118
0.365
283
246
216
37 --- 67 30
119 --- 0.384 276 240 210 36 66 30
146 --- 0.420 288 258 232 30 56 26
208 0.408 282 258 233 24 49 25
218 0.418 280 242 218 38 62 24
227 0.383 276 253 228 23 48 25
483 0.395 266 242 216 24 50 26
493 0.415 276 252 229 24 47 23
536 0.378 268 244 218 24 50 26
539 0.400 280 256 230 24 50 26
540 0.384 272 248 222 24 50 26
613 0.381 266 240 218 26 48 22
715 0.408 283 256 228 27 55 28
797 0.410 277 252 224 25 53 28
813 0.388 268 244 218 24 50 26
814 0.402 279 251 223 28 56 28
830 0.383 272 244 217 28 55 27
931 0.380 280 258 232 22 48 26
961 0.400 282 256 228 26 54 28
968 0.386 274 248 220 26 54 28
1002 0.379 274 248 221 26 53 27
1029 0.381 263 240 218 23 45 22
1043 0.400 268 242 216 26 52 26
here are some # that Larry posted in the past.
Web cam spec’s
lift
Dur.
Dur. ---- Dur. ---
[ Ramp Rates ]
Grind .
@.020"
@.050" - @.100" ---- [20-50] - [20-100] - [50-100]
#45
0.415
268
244
220
24 --- 48--- 24
110
0.395
284
256
228
28 --- 56 28
118
0.365
283
246
216
37 --- 67 30
119 --- 0.384 276 240 210 36 66 30
146 --- 0.420 288 258 232 30 56 26
208 0.408 282 258 233 24 49 25
218 0.418 280 242 218 38 62 24
227 0.383 276 253 228 23 48 25
483 0.395 266 242 216 24 50 26
493 0.415 276 252 229 24 47 23
536 0.378 268 244 218 24 50 26
539 0.400 280 256 230 24 50 26
540 0.384 272 248 222 24 50 26
613 0.381 266 240 218 26 48 22
715 0.408 283 256 228 27 55 28
797 0.410 277 252 224 25 53 28
813 0.388 268 244 218 24 50 26
814 0.402 279 251 223 28 56 28
830 0.383 272 244 217 28 55 27
931 0.380 280 258 232 22 48 26
961 0.400 282 256 228 26 54 28
968 0.386 274 248 220 26 54 28
1002 0.379 274 248 221 26 53 27
1029 0.381 263 240 218 23 45 22
1043 0.400 268 242 216 26 52 26
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.
~ ~ ~_@
~ ~ _- \,
~ (k) / (z)
Last edit: 30 May 2011 12:00 by mark1122.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Motor Head
- Offline
- User
- FIX UP YOUR BIKE RIGHT AND CHEAP
Less
More
- Posts: 5138
- Thank you received: 391
30 May 2011 11:58 - 30 May 2011 12:07 #454323
by Motor Head
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Replied by Motor Head on topic Mikunis won't idle down
With that spec sheet, those should be very streetable. But are they installed according to spec? The IN cam would have to be retarded to have a large signal drop.
If it had aftermarket slotted gears on the cams, it could become retarded if the sprocket slips, loose bolts etc.
If it had aftermarket slotted gears on the cams, it could become retarded if the sprocket slips, loose bolts etc.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Last edit: 30 May 2011 12:07 by Motor Head.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Patton
- Offline
- KZr Legend
Less
More
- Posts: 18640
- Thank you received: 2098
30 May 2011 12:06 #454324
by Patton
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Replied by Patton on topic Mikunis won't idle down
Perhaps already covered, but has the timing advancer been lubed to help prevent any tendency it might have to hang or stick in the advanced position? If not already done, the timing advancer may need both cleaning and lubing.
Good Fortune!
Good Fortune!
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Godfrey
- Topic Author
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 210
- Thank you received: 10
30 May 2011 12:21 #454327
by Godfrey
1981 650CSR frame
1980 KZ750E engine
Replied by Godfrey on topic Mikunis won't idle down
Its an 1980 engine , has the newer style cam chain and the tensioner rail built into the valve cover.
LOL second hand knowledge stinks, the guy who sold it to me said when it was degreed the intake cam was only 1 degree off on the stock sprocket, or an1/8 of a tooth as he put it so they left that alone the stock exhaust sprocket has been slotted and I assume that the cam has been correctly indexed to work, but this doesn't mean the marks on the sprocket for timing purposes are correct. So waht you are telling me, motorhead, is like in a car if the cam timing is retarded the whole power band is shifted to a higher rpm.
I am assuming we are talking about grind 931 from the list, the ramp rates are greek to me.
931 0.380 280 258 232 22 48 26
280 is advertised duration and 258 is effective duration at.50 so yeah still under 260, if you could explain to me the 22 48 and 26 specs
right now the stock exhaust sprocket timing line is dead on at TDC and the in line in the intake dips just slightly below the level of the top of the head if I advance both of them 1 tooth that will be 7.8 degrees
BTW Thank both You and Mark for hangin with me on this
LOL second hand knowledge stinks, the guy who sold it to me said when it was degreed the intake cam was only 1 degree off on the stock sprocket, or an1/8 of a tooth as he put it so they left that alone the stock exhaust sprocket has been slotted and I assume that the cam has been correctly indexed to work, but this doesn't mean the marks on the sprocket for timing purposes are correct. So waht you are telling me, motorhead, is like in a car if the cam timing is retarded the whole power band is shifted to a higher rpm.
I am assuming we are talking about grind 931 from the list, the ramp rates are greek to me.
931 0.380 280 258 232 22 48 26
280 is advertised duration and 258 is effective duration at.50 so yeah still under 260, if you could explain to me the 22 48 and 26 specs
right now the stock exhaust sprocket timing line is dead on at TDC and the in line in the intake dips just slightly below the level of the top of the head if I advance both of them 1 tooth that will be 7.8 degrees
BTW Thank both You and Mark for hangin with me on this
1981 650CSR frame
1980 KZ750E engine
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mark1122
- Offline
- User
- Keep twisting it
Less
More
- Posts: 5359
- Thank you received: 109
30 May 2011 12:37 #454331
by mark1122
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.
~ ~ ~_@
~ ~ _- \,
~ (k) / (z)
Replied by mark1122 on topic Mikunis won't idle down
i thought u said u had 118 grind.
the ramp rates can be used to compare 2 cams of similar advertized lift. the rates describe how quickly it lifts off the seat or ramps up. they are listed above at [20-50] - [20-100] - [50-100].
this is the lift at [.020" to .050"].
i can really only speculate myself.
the ramp rates can be used to compare 2 cams of similar advertized lift. the rates describe how quickly it lifts off the seat or ramps up. they are listed above at [20-50] - [20-100] - [50-100].
this is the lift at [.020" to .050"].
i can really only speculate myself.
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.
~ ~ ~_@
~ ~ _- \,
~ (k) / (z)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Motor Head
- Offline
- User
- FIX UP YOUR BIKE RIGHT AND CHEAP
Less
More
- Posts: 5138
- Thank you received: 391
30 May 2011 12:39 - 30 May 2011 12:45 #454332
by Motor Head
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Replied by Motor Head on topic Mikunis won't idle down
On your first post you said Web 118: Mark posted the Web Specs:
Webb (#118)
0.365
283
246
216
37 --- 67 30
If the In cam was closing late, the piston will be traveling up the bore on the compression stroke, which ca push a amount back into the port. This is Reversion. Gives a loss of vacuum, and a Lope at Idle, depending on duration. Those are not big cams if they are indeed the 118 grind. They should be able to run quite well, Idle at 1300, give decent bottom, and hit solid in the mid to upper range. Not a drag race cam, all top and no Bottom/ Idle.
There is a spec for checking the Hi-Vo chain length, I've included the FSM check.
The Hi-Vo chain makes degreeing much harder, as the chain guide is in the cover.
Patton suggests the Advancer cleaning, I'm sure you've done all that, right?
If the timing is hanging it will cause the Idle to hold higher than normal.
Sorry this is the Length, Here.
So if the chain has stretched, or guides worn since the Timing was done, that would retard it some. But enough? Only a degreeing would be able to tell how far, if at all it is off from Web cams spec.
Webb (#118)
0.365
283
246
216
37 --- 67 30
If the In cam was closing late, the piston will be traveling up the bore on the compression stroke, which ca push a amount back into the port. This is Reversion. Gives a loss of vacuum, and a Lope at Idle, depending on duration. Those are not big cams if they are indeed the 118 grind. They should be able to run quite well, Idle at 1300, give decent bottom, and hit solid in the mid to upper range. Not a drag race cam, all top and no Bottom/ Idle.
There is a spec for checking the Hi-Vo chain length, I've included the FSM check.
The Hi-Vo chain makes degreeing much harder, as the chain guide is in the cover.
Patton suggests the Advancer cleaning, I'm sure you've done all that, right?
If the timing is hanging it will cause the Idle to hold higher than normal.
Sorry this is the Length, Here.
So if the chain has stretched, or guides worn since the Timing was done, that would retard it some. But enough? Only a degreeing would be able to tell how far, if at all it is off from Web cams spec.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Last edit: 30 May 2011 12:45 by Motor Head.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Godfrey
- Topic Author
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 210
- Thank you received: 10
30 May 2011 12:55 #454335
by Godfrey
1981 650CSR frame
1980 KZ750E engine
Replied by Godfrey on topic Mikunis won't idle down
I looked back at the first post, you are right I did say a 118 grind, I was wrong. This is definitely a .380 lift cam from actual measuring with a digital caliper, across the base circle and top to bottom .380 is the difference. the advancer moves freely to me when the engine is at rest, so I haven't taken it off to lube it,(maybe again my mistake), Its a dyna ignition and I used it on the 650 engine, although it came off this engine, for several yrs with no problem. I made a fixture to tension the chain that fits where the old style tensioner bolted in( the 4 holes not used in the head).I guess to eliminate the potential I'll go pull the timing plate and advancer and lube the advancer, any specific oil to use on that?
1981 650CSR frame
1980 KZ750E engine
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Motor Head
- Offline
- User
- FIX UP YOUR BIKE RIGHT AND CHEAP
Less
More
- Posts: 5138
- Thank you received: 391
30 May 2011 13:04 #454338
by Motor Head
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Replied by Motor Head on topic Mikunis won't idle down
Specific oil, not really. I use a grease from Bosch for distributors. Cleaning and re-lubing is the important part.
The fixture you made would have to duplicate the valve cover, and chain guide, to hold the chain at the same spot. Otherwise the timing for at least the EX cam would be wrong. I saw an older post, someone put it in one of my old threads, where an old valve cover was cut up.
KZ1P, kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/421264-hi-vo-...ng-tool-or-home-made
Have a look.
If you are in there try to get the Markings off the Cams. 380 lift still dosen't sound bad, but the duration is the biggest equation to drivability.
The fixture you made would have to duplicate the valve cover, and chain guide, to hold the chain at the same spot. Otherwise the timing for at least the EX cam would be wrong. I saw an older post, someone put it in one of my old threads, where an old valve cover was cut up.
KZ1P, kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/421264-hi-vo-...ng-tool-or-home-made
Have a look.
If you are in there try to get the Markings off the Cams. 380 lift still dosen't sound bad, but the duration is the biggest equation to drivability.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Godfrey
- Topic Author
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 210
- Thank you received: 10
30 May 2011 13:14 #454341
by Godfrey
1981 650CSR frame
1980 KZ750E engine
Replied by Godfrey on topic Mikunis won't idle down
its closed up at the moment, as I was runnin it this morning, excuse the ignorance once more but where on the shaft do I look and what exactly am I lookin for? got the advancer at the desk as I type, will clean , lube and reinstall. seems free right now.
1981 650CSR frame
1980 KZ750E engine
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Motor Head
- Offline
- User
- FIX UP YOUR BIKE RIGHT AND CHEAP
Less
More
- Posts: 5138
- Thank you received: 391
30 May 2011 13:16 #454342
by Motor Head
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Replied by Motor Head on topic Mikunis won't idle down
Makings either Stamped or Engraved in. Usually on the end.
1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Godfrey
- Topic Author
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 210
- Thank you received: 10
30 May 2011 13:44 #454345
by Godfrey
1981 650CSR frame
1980 KZ750E engine
Replied by Godfrey on topic Mikunis won't idle down
ok, will be gone for a while this time I imagine, torque the advancer in, try that , and then will have to let it cool if the advancer wasn't the problem, so I can take the top off once again TY for all your help, Happy Memorial Day
If it is the advancer you'll know shortly. only other option is to advance the cams a tooth and roll it makin sure nuthin hits. sigh, will look for numbers too . Thanks again
If it is the advancer you'll know shortly. only other option is to advance the cams a tooth and roll it makin sure nuthin hits. sigh, will look for numbers too . Thanks again
1981 650CSR frame
1980 KZ750E engine
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.