Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900

Wookie58 wrote:

 I tried to get dyna coils but it will not be possible to get them before season is over. I will do the relaymod also .
So has anyone any experience with the boyer bransden ignition?

Rolf the plug caps have nothing to do with the coil failure - there is no physical connection between primary and secondary windings and the caps won't effect the current drawn by the coils. I ran BB ignition many years ago on a KH400 with no issues

Thanks Wookie58 !  Your knowledge is worth gold .Thanks to all for helping this forum is awesome !!


 

hi rolf just 1thing to be aware of when you swap out the points plate to accept the new bits be careful the front cover on mine didn't fit back on without smashing the unit but there is no mention of this in the instructions thanks

david richard wrote:

hi rolf just 1thing to be aware of when you swap out the points plate to accept the new bits be careful the front cover on mine didn't fit back on without smashing the unit but there is no mention of this in the instructions thanks

Thanks againg David !  I will then take great care to check that when trying to install the cover back on.
 

So last night i had a chance to take a look under the valvecover.And sure enough the thump i felt on my last testride and the bike started to missfire and run bad was the camchain jumping plus the melted coil did not make things better. This time the chain has jumped 2 pins .I was very aware when i installed the cams and set the timingchain
after  replaced the valvestemseals on the 8th september.I first installed the chaintensioner in a locked position about 1-2mm further out to make sure the cain was thaught .But later i then used the starter to turn the engine with the plugcaps off i felt that maybe the chain was too thight so therefore i released the chaintensioner bolt
and reset the tensioner again.It is now for sure that the tensioner spring is too weak to keep the chain on the
sprockets.Also the slider in front is worn and probably the chain is stretched over limit to plus the top idler
sprocket is wobbly.
The engine turns over fine and i done a compression test that shows the compression has dropped from 140-150psi
earlier to 100-110psi.The valvelash is in spec so maybe there is a hope that non valves are bent.
Anyway i think i will have to tear down the engine and replace tensioner and sliders camchain and idler sprockets.And do a valvejob while the engine is apart.Not what i expected when bought the bike...

UPDATE !  when looking at the pictures now again im not 100% sure the chain has jumped i will have to take the top idler off to confirm

Yesterday i recieved the boyer bransden ignition kit with coils included and also 2 other coils i bought from another place. I will post about that later not sure i will even start to install some of that stuff now risking  damage the engine totally.The season is over in a few weeks

I think you need to sort this mechanical issue before you run the motor again or worry about the ignition. It sounds like you have been lucky so far but I wouldn't advise "pushing your luck" 

Wookie58 wrote:

I think you need to sort this mechanical issue before you run the motor again or worry about the ignition. It sounds like you have been lucky so far but I wouldn't advise "pushing your luck" 

You are right Wookie58   even if  i really want to go in the garage now and fix this i just have to face it.It is not smart to fix it and then experience a total engine blowout bent valves broken pistons and maybe a little rod sticking out of the cases 

.It is frustrating but cant take the chance to try to fix this without new parts.
 

With regard to your chain tensioner (on the bottom and back of the cylinder block) it sound like you are setting the tensioner before installing it.  The correct way is to bolt the tensioner to the block, release the set nut and allow the tensioner to find its correct position.  Then tighten the lock nut.  That's it.  No need to worry about how little or how much to move the plunger.  If you are setting the tensioner and THEN installing it.....you are doing it incorrectly and slack on your chain will result in your timing chain jumping a tooth.

SWest wrote:

Once the cams are in it is hard to get the arrow in the right spot by turning the cam but it's easy to move the chain back to the 28T spot when the idler is off. I think you found the problem, the idler is shot. There shouldn't be any slop in it and if it's that bad a broken cam chain could be the result. 
All the cam chain rollers and guide must be solid or they must be replaced. Liska is good replacement option and are 1/2 the price of OEM. 
Not a good place to cheap out on. Don't ask me how I know. 

Steve

If  the top idler is shot the rest are as well. The plastic gets hard and falls apart as does the rest of the plastic pieces. The spring on the plunger isn't meant to apply pressure, it's meant to move to the proper position then you lock it. I tried to compensate with a Honda CB450 plunger being it was longer and it worked until I broke the cam chain and part of it went through the cam cover. Most of the valves were bent and the pistons nicked. Being in the desert in the 70's there were no Kaw shops near by so I strapped the head to a little shopping stroller, took the Greyhound bus to LA Barry's Handy Cycle for help. He had some old valves laying around so he cleaned them up and lapped them in. One guide was shot so he replaced it with a Honda one he knurled to fit. He kept his shop open well into the night. He told me to replace the pistons ASAP or they could come apart next. I did later after a hole developed in one piston then I bought a Wiseco K1015 kit. By that time I had bought a 67 Lemans and a 66 Tempest for $200. Both weren't running so I used the parts off the Tempest and got the Lemans back on the road. After working and saving my money I finally was able to take the barrels to "Ni**er Lee" to have the cylinders bored. It was a rush job so the bike burned a little oil but it was back on the road until I got into it again. I ran that valve cover with a beer can and silicon patch for two years. 

Back then there was no eBay and used parts were hard to come by. Aftermarket was just kicking in but for hard parts we had to pay FULL RIPPING RETAIL. 

With that I feel qualified to say replace the parts or don't ride the bike. 
Steve


www.z1enterprises.com/cam-chain-idler-as...z900-1000-liska.html

Result after misusing the APE manual tensioner

hardrockminer wrote:

With regard to your chain tensioner (on the bottom and back of the cylinder block) it sound like you are setting the tensioner before installing it.  The correct way is to bolt the tensioner to the block, release the set nut and allow the tensioner to find its correct position.  Then tighten the lock nut.  That's it.  No need to worry about how little or how much to move the plunger.  If you are setting the tensioner and THEN installing it.....you are doing it incorrectly and slack on your chain will result in your timing chain jumping a tooth.

Yes i know exactly what you are speaking of . Im familiar with motorcycleengines. One thing is that the tensioner dont have a thoothed mechanism that keep it from going back ,but it has the lock screw .I  know the tensioner not is supposed to be installed in locked position .But i took it out in locked position and then extracted it about 1,5mm and put it back  (locked)  in  case the spring that seems very weak did not manage to take up enough slack. I then ran the engine with starter with plugcaps off ,but did not feel comfertable with that so i just realesed the bolt on tensioner and reset it before i started the engine. The chain has not jumped this time as i first thaught (see pictures under )so that is great. I think the last time bike started to run bad  is something electrical because i found one coil had melted bubbles underside.

 

SWest wrote:

SWest wrote:

Once the cams are in it is hard to get the arrow in the right spot by turning the cam but it's easy to move the chain back to the 28T spot when the idler is off. I think you found the problem, the idler is shot. There shouldn't be any slop in it and if it's that bad a broken cam chain could be the result. 
All the cam chain rollers and guide must be solid or they must be replaced. Liska is good replacement option and are 1/2 the price of OEM. 
Not a good place to cheap out on. Don't ask me how I know. 

Steve

If  the top idler is shot the rest are as well. The plastic gets hard and falls apart as does the rest of the plastic pieces. The spring on the plunger isn't meant to apply pressure, it's meant to move to the proper position then you lock it. I tried to compensate with a Honda CB450 plunger being it was longer and it worked until I broke the cam chain and part of it went through the cam cover. Most of the valves were bent and the pistons nicked. Being in the desert in the 70's there were no Kaw shops near by so I strapped the head to a little shopping stroller, took the Greyhound bus to LA Barry's Handy Cycle for help. He had some old valves laying around so he cleaned them up and lapped them in. One guide was shot so he replaced it with a Honda one he knurled to fit. He kept his shop open well into the night. He told me to replace the pistons ASAP or they could come apart next. I did later after a hole developed in one piston then I bought a Wiseco K1015 kit. By that time I had bought a 67 Lemans and a 66 Tempest for $200. Both weren't running so I used the parts off the Tempest and got the Lemans back on the road. After working and saving my money I finally was able to take the barrels to "Ni**er Lee" to have the cylinders bored. It was a rush job so the bike burned a little oil but it was back on the road until I got into it again. I ran that valve cover with a beer can and silicon patch for two years. 

Back then there was no eBay and used parts were hard to come by. Aftermarket was just kicking in but for hard parts we had to pay FULL RIPPING RETAIL. 

With that I feel qualified to say replace the parts or don't ride the bike. 
Steve


www.z1enterprises.com/cam-chain-idler-as...z900-1000-liska.html
 

Thanks for advice i had a look at the liska stuff and may buy that . Great story by the way

  i will note down how to fix valvecover with bear can and silicone !
I have had some similar episodes in the past .Once on a long trip into sweeden my bike then a FJ1100  fell over  and the brakepedal made a hole in the clutchcover and oil  flow out. It was in the middle of nowhere so my buddy drove me on his bike to a gasstation and i bought epoxy glue and some chemical metalputty and wetsandpaper. Drove back to the bike and cleaned and sanded  the area around the hole .Then glued a sweedish coin over the hole and put some chemical putty over that. It held up several years ! I did not have much money back then in 1990 or something so i just painted over the repair until i got money to buy a new clutchcover,but i forgot about the repair .The funny thing is that i then traded the bike for a car and only a few days after the buyer called me and told me that when  he got into his garage it was alot of oil on the floor and in the middle it was a flat cake with a sweedish coin in the middle of it.!  I then remeber the repair and told him i will buy i new clutchcover and gasket right away that was embarresing

 

Here is an update was in the garage again and took off the top idler .To my surprice the camchain has not jumped!!!?  it is still 28 pins.The white markings fooled me.I remember now that i read somwhere that to get the markings on the chain to fit the same position when installed the engine need to be turned about 90 times. I was then tempted to just install the new ignition stuff and take a ride,but something is wrong. Even if the timing marks are good and it is 28 pins the camlobes is not 100% .I tested with a homemade leakdown and the valves are holding air when the lobes are in the right position but when turning the crank a little more so the timingmarks is 100% right the valves leak a little air.I think it is because of worn out sliders and stuff. I have now started to tear engine down to do a overhaul

Back in 2016 my uncle gave me his 84' Honda VF 700S Sabre. It had sat outside for over 6 years and I had finally gotten it running good. I had a weekend ride planned when the brake and clutch master cylinder sight windows started weeping. I didn't have any replacements so I started searching for something the right size. I ended up using JB Weld clear to glue dimes in. The holes are deep so I used two dimes on each side. You can just barely see the one in the clutch master cylinder. In the interest of taste I used 1984 dimes and even made sure they were right side up and they are still there.