Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900

zed1015 wrote:

The front chain guide is worn but still intact and can only be replaced by removing the head and barrels.
Dyna coils can be matt or glossy .
The genuine ones have "DYNA" moulded into the body.
Copies are just plain blank in the same area and there are no copies with the DYNA logo..
Cam timing cannot affect the coils..

Thanks Zed1015  good information !   Well this engine is starting to smell total rebuild .Not what i was hoping for when i bought it since it is in good condition on outside and looks well maintained . The inside of sleves looks good can see honemarks and comp is good so that is positive ,but will mabe resleve and bore/hone anyway when first doing the job
 

A couple of things.

First, your friend's coils may be OK but the only way to know for sure is to check the impedence.  (resistance).

Second, When you installed the top cam chain idler....if you had no slack after installation then you should be OK, but I would take the valve cover off and check the timing just to be sure.  I think there is a specification in the service manual for timing chain stretch, but you would have to pull the cases apart to check the chain, so you might as well change it if you have the cases apart in the future.

Third, you can probably find a master link timing chain.  I have one for when I eventually do the engine on my KZ1000.  I think I bought it from Z1 Enterprises in the USA but check Z Power in Britain.   www.z-power.co.uk/merchantmanager/index

A compression test will help you decide if you need to bore the engine.  I pulled my Z1 engine apart after 35,000 miles and could still see the hone marks on the cylinder walls.  Compression was good and everything measured in spec, so I changed the timing chain and the valve seals and put it back together.  After checking the timing and installing new coils you should check compression.

hardrockminer wrote:

A couple of things.

First, your friend's coils may be OK but the only way to know for sure is to check the impedence.  (resistance).

Second, When you installed the top cam chain idler....if you had no slack after installation then you should be OK, but I would take the valve cover off and check the timing just to be sure.  I think there is a specification in the service manual for timing chain stretch, but you would have to pull the cases apart to check the chain, so you might as well change it if you have the cases apart in the future.

Third, you can probably find a master link timing chain.  I have one for when I eventually do the engine on my KZ1000.  I think I bought it from Z1 Enterprises in the USA but check Z Power in Britain.   www.z-power.co.uk/merchantmanager/index

A compression test will help you decide if you need to bore the engine.  I pulled my Z1 engine apart after 35,000 miles and could still see the hone marks on the cylinder walls.  Compression was good and everything measured in spec, so I changed the timing chain and the valve seals and put it back together.  After checking the timing and installing new coils you should check compression.

Thanks  I did a few attemts to measure the camchain stretch but gave up since i had the chain stretched with a strap in the roof of the garage. It is suposed to be loaded with 5kg to when measuring .When mounted the cams back i got that slap in the chain again at TDC  when rortating the crank. I then did try to make it a little more thight by mounting the chaintensioner 1 mm more out by locking it 1 mm more out and then mounting it. The spring on tensioner feels very weak so that is why i did that. After i put on the valvecover and run it with the starter with plugcaps off  i got a feeling that i had to reset the tensioner by losen the bolt and set it again. I suspect that the worn front slider in combination of a weak tensioner and mabe a stretched chain can make the chain has jumped again when i did the testride.  Im a little fed up now so havent remowed the valvecover yet to have a look.  I have found and ordered new green dynacoils from england Zpower uk.
Hope they ship fast so maybe i can ride the bike more before the winterstoage. But if the chain had jumped again i will just have to replace everything as a winter project. And about the camchain with masterlink i for got to check that on z power uk. The chain i once replaced on another bike was not as sturdy as the original it was a d.i.d  chain but i was a little worried it may snap so later on that engine after a year i just split he cases and replaced with the oem yamaha chain.

 

Sorry i remember wrong and thaught the  masterlink camchain was a  D.I.D chain i can se now when looking at the pic it is a SDH  i measured it in many ways and it was a little thinner and on top it was flat the pins also was a tiny bit thinne i think   .The oem chain is more bulky and on top it is bumpy. It worked ok  , but i split the cases and replaced with oem a year later
I did a searh now and could not fint a chain with masterlink for the z900  but found a complete kit not cheap ,but i think i will have to buy it to get the engine in shape
www.z-power.co.uk/cam-chaintensioner-full-kit-900
Update : i found one chain with masterlink and it is D.I.D   www.diablocycle.com/Kawasaki-Z1-KZ900-and-KZ1000-Cam-Chain.html


.

If your cam chain is stretched you will have a lot of slack in the center when the cams are put in place.  When you put the top idler on it should not reach the head surface on its own.  It should be suspended on the chain while you tighten the four bolts.  You may have a damaged idler between the head and the cylinders that is causing extra slack.

The bike now has been standing since the coil burned. Very frustrated with this bike now I have ordered coils from z1enterprize in usa and payd them 70usd  for fast shipping that was 5 or 6 days ago and they are still in florida when tracking the pacage !!. I have now decided to try order the boyer brandsen ignition kit from z power uk that has coils included in the kit and hoping this will fix the electrical problem.
The bike now has a dyna s installed ,but i suspect it is a low quality replica from china.It is not any dyna brand marking on it. Is the boyer brandsen stuff bad or good ?
I think the coil got fried because i changed to 1 ohm sparkplug caps to get better spark ,but im not a electrical expert so im not sure.
I tried to get dyna coils but it will not be possible to get them before season is over. I will do the relaymod also .
So has anyone any experience with the boyer bransden ignition?

I'm sorry to hear that your problems are not yet resolved.  Electrical issues seem to be the most frustrating because they aren't easy to uncover, but the Z1/KZ 900 bikes are quite simple and reliable, so I'm sure if you persist you will have a reliable rider.  I only have experience with stock coils/ignition or with Dyna systems.  I have Dyna pickups and coils (green) on both my big bikes and they are quite reliable.  One has the Wired George relay mod.  The Z1 does not.  My advice for what it's worth is to stick with the Dyna pickup and coils, as they have served me well on several bikes.

It looks like your riding season is over for now.  Looking forward to your posts on the engine work.

hi rolf im in the uk and 4 months ago i had my z1r which i brought boyer brandson ignition from z power and its made a huge difference to the running of the bike all you want are non resister plugs and 5 k caps and wire it up so it has a constant live good luck 

Rolf1976_KZ900 wrote:

The bike now has been standing since the coil burned. Very frustrated with this bike now I have ordered coils from z1enterprize in usa and payd them 70usd  for fast shipping that was 5 or 6 days ago and they are still in florida when tracking the pacage !!. I have now decided to try order the boyer brandsen ignition kit from z power uk that has coils included in the kit and hoping this will fix the electrical problem.
The bike now has a dyna s installed ,but i suspect it is a low quality replica from china.It is not any dyna brand marking on it. Is the boyer brandsen stuff bad or good ?
I think the coil got fried because i changed to 1 ohm sparkplug caps to get better spark ,but im not a electrical expert so im not sure.
I tried to get dyna coils but it will not be possible to get them before season is over. I will do the relaymod also .
So has anyone any experience with the boyer bransden ignition?

Rolf the plug caps have nothing to do with the coil failure - there is no physical connection between primary and secondary windings and the caps won't effect the current drawn by the coils. I ran BB ignition many years ago on a KH400 with no issues

hardrockminer wrote:

If your cam chain is stretched you will have a lot of slack in the center when the cams are put in place.  When you put the top idler on it should not reach the head surface on its own.  It should be suspended on the chain while you tighten the four bolts.  You may have a damaged idler between the head and the cylinders that is causing extra slack.


I think you are right about the top idlersprocket is damaged and also chain stretched .First time i had it off when the camchain had jumped  one tooth it was very sloppy flimsy loose and easy to twist sideways . Last time i had it off because i had to remowe the cams to replace the valveseals. I notised that the chain did the jump when reaching TDC and got loose between the cams going under the topidler sprocket. i Then decided to manually set the camchaintensioner 1mm more extracted because the spring feels weak.Then the jumping in camchain when reach TDC stopped and i put on the valvecover. But after that i used the startermotor and rotated the engine with the plugcaps off. I dont know why ,but i got a feeling the camchain was too tight so i reset the camchain tensioner .I then put the plugcaps on and started the engine and it was running ok. When i took the bike for a new testride it ran great for about 10 -15 minutes and then i felt a little thump or dont know what i shall call it from the engine and right after that it started  tomissfire and also got that burnt electrical smell .That was the same thing that happened some weeks ago the first time bike started running bad and i found that the camchain had jumped one tooth.So now i think the chain has jumped one tooth again because of a combination worn sliders weak camtensioner spring and as you say damaged top idler sprocket. But why did the coil melt??  i got the same burnt electrical smell first time the chain jumped and guess that also was from coil. I have not checked yet if the camchain actually has jumped .




 

hardrockminer wrote:

I'm sorry to hear that your problems are not yet resolved.  Electrical issues seem to be the most frustrating because they aren't easy to uncover, but the Z1/KZ 900 bikes are quite simple and reliable, so I'm sure if you persist you will have a reliable rider.  I only have experience with stock coils/ignition or with Dyna systems.  I have Dyna pickups and coils (green) on both my big bikes and they are quite reliable.  One has the Wired George relay mod.  The Z1 does not.  My advice for what it's worth is to stick with the Dyna pickup and coils, as they have served me well on several bikes.

It looks like your riding season is over for now.  Looking forward to your posts on the engine work.


I first ordered a dynatec kit with coils ,but then i was informed that it will be delays so i cancelled that order and then order 2 coils from Z1 enterprises. That is week ago and payd for fast shipping ,but they still is laying around in usps post in Miami florida .So now i have order the Boyer Bransden kit that has coils  microprossessor and cables all included in the kit .That is from Z power uk hoping that it will arrive fast.
 

david richard wrote:

hi rolf im in the uk and 4 months ago i had my z1r which i brought boyer brandson ignition from z power and its made a huge difference to the running of the bike all you want are non resister plugs and 5 k caps and wire it up so it has a constant live good luck 

Hi David  Thanks for informing about the BB. I  will put the 5 ohms caps back on and i use ngk b8es plugs.