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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 02:54 #888731

  • Rolf1976_KZ900
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I have already posted this in the electrical section in the tread i made there that my bike started to run bad ,but i need to confirm that the timing is off because i have to be finished with the work on the bike today.
I need confirmation that the timing is not right set.I rotated engine to TDC 1 and 4 then the little arrow on the exhaustcam sprocket is just a little over the head surface not flush..So then i counted the pins on camchain.I started with the first pin above the little arrow mark on exhaustcamsprocket .I marked the pin that is in line with the 28 mark on inntakecamsprocket.Tested 3 times and it is only 27 pins to the 28 mark. Can you confirm i did this check right?   What will be the easyest way to move the chain take off the sprocket while i try to not make it jump on the crank sprocket? or will i get enouh slack in chain if take the cam chain tensioner out?
I may be wrong sice the compression is good
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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 03:06 #888732

  • Warren3200gt
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Replied in your other thread

Z1000J2 somewhat modified!

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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 04:15 #888735

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As Warren said, you need to remove the top idler in order to lift the chain enough to get it off the sprocket so that you can rotate the sprocket forward one pin.  I've never done it without removing the cam chain tensioner.  You may also need to remove it.
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.
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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 05:46 #888738

  • SWest
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Looks like you have the first pin right. Are the cams pointing directly away or toward each other? If not I'd remove the idler recount and set the 28th pin where it should be. 
Steve
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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 05:50 #888739

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Second look the intake cam needs to be one pin back.
Steve
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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 13:55 #888751

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Have those cam sprockets been 'degreed' by any chance?
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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 14:58 #888754

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Have those cam sprockets been 'degreed' by any chance?
Can't have been degreed.
Stock sprockets, No slots..
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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 14:59 #888755

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i had big difficulty getting this right normally this would be quite easy.Had to do many attemts to get the 28pin mark  and the little arrow to match.Finally i got them right ,but something is wrong.Now the chain jumps under the top idler sprocket everytine it reach TDC .Maybe the po had to set it at 27 pins because of something??  have tried to play with the chaintensioner thinking that it is not strong enough.It does not extract fully
 plenty left in the adjuster so i it is not worn out stretched camchain either. There are only one basegasket maybe the head has been milled alot? The top idler sprocket is very sloppy
can twist it in any direction strange it not has some kind of tensioner that could have compensated for the jump the chain makes or it is more like a slak that comes on TDC.
I did hold the chain stretced from crank to exhaust ,but maybe this time when i finally got things to match it has been a little slack?. The jump seems to be from one of the cams It is late now i post some pics tomorrow. I dont think the camsprockets have beed degreed will look more into it tomorrow

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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 27 Aug 2023 17:20 #888762

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Once the cams are in it is hard to get the arrow in the right spot by turning the cam but it's easy to move the chain back to the 28T spot when the idler is off. I think you found the problem, the idler is shot. There shouldn't be any slop in it and if it's that bad a broken cam chain could be the result. 
All the cam chain rollers and guide must be solid or they must be replaced. Liska is good replacement option and are 1/2 the price of OEM. 
Not a good place to cheap out on. Don't ask me how I know. 
Steve

www.z1enterprises.com/cam-chain-idler-as...z900-1000-liska.html
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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 28 Aug 2023 01:14 #888773

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The camchain jumping as you rotate the engine is usually either the tensioner backing off because it isn't locked off or the camchain isn't on the crank sprocket fully but sat to the side.
Even if an idler was collapsed the chain shouldn't really jump as the tensioner should have took up the play when initially tensioned.
 
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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 28 Aug 2023 01:18 #888774

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Thanks SWest for the link and help.
When i now think about it i remember that when i did a benchsynk of the valves on a head that i had ovehauled and done a valvejob on the cams will slap fast over at one piont when rotating them .That is what happens now
so the chain has got a slack. I can fix this by taking off the camsprocket on the intakecam and move the chain ,but then im back to start with 27 pin to the 28 mark =).
I will do more attemts to get it fixed today. Another possibility is that the chain is not on the cranksprocket i think if i cant fix it on next attemt i will suck out oil and use a borescopecamera
trying to take a look down on the cranksprocket.One thing also notised is that i can feel hear the chain is jumping on the cranksprocket wery easy so maybe the cranksprocket is toast i hope not =) .Now im ready for a new round in the garage.

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Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900 28 Aug 2023 01:21 #888775

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The camchain jumping as you rotate the engine is usually either the tensioner backing off because it isn't locked off or the camchain isn't on the crank sprocket fully but sat to the side.
Even if an idler was collapsed the chain shouldn't really jump as the tensioner should have took up the play when initially tensioned.

Zed1015  you are totally right i just read your post now after i posted my last post i will check more today

 

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