Engine oil surge issue

swest wrote: I'll be putting in my new crank soon. I'll do a gate then.
Steve

Good idea, I wish I did my gate before I realized what the problem was. For some reason I had a brain failure when I put my engine together

40 years without one. Can't be SO bad. :whistle:
Steve

HELP, I just hit a brick wall, all this stuff works for the KZ1000 but the 1100B model has a different setup, it has a relief valve which not only gets in the way of the screw that holds the gate it also prevents the gate from having full movement.

Does anyone know how to get around this, does the 1100 need the relief valve, for general riding I don't see it being of any use as the roller bearings prevent over pressure, if it needs to be fitted I don't believe the gate will work.

What does the pan look like?
Steve

The pan looks like the KZ1000 (they can use the same gasket), the gate just opens against the valve but really its a tight squeeze. If you look at an oil pan the zig zag fins run very close to this relief valve.

The valve itself, the only purpose I can see for it is if the oil filter blocks or there is some obstruction in the oil gallery, I can't see what other purpose it has, I don't think it matters if the oil pressure is greater on startup (thicker oil) and at higher revs when the oil is warm the pressure is lucky to get to 9psi, so I'm tempted to remove it unless someone comes up with a better reason for it being there.

Zed1015, if you read this, you mentioned to do this to the kz1100 (GPZ1100 in Oz), do you know if the valve is removed?.

Is there a bypass valve at the top of the oil filter housing? That's in case the filter gets clogged. The valve you're talking about is a relief valve for the oil pressure. It doesn't go to the oil galleys. My bike has high oil pressure. 20 psi at start up and it drops down to around 5 when hot. If it were me, I'd put a Allen in there and see what the pressure does.
Steve

Agree, this valve only appears to work when the filter is clogged etc before the oil galleries to the filter, I previously ran this engine without one until I realized unlike the Z1R which has this valve on the engine casing (near the gears) the GPZ has it on the pump housing (as in my photos).

I will remove the valve (plug the hole) and fit the gate, I think as long as I have clean oil/ filter I shouldn't have any issues.

You must have a better oil pressure gauge then I do, my "cheap" gauges (I had two in the Z1R's life) ran about 12 on startup (not revving past 1500rpm) cold, and cruising at 1 to 3psi, if revved (hot) around 9psi. The oil pump was brand new (off this GPZ engine).

Steve, thanks for letting me bounce ideas off you and everyone else who replied.

swest wrote: 40 years without one. Can't be SO bad. :whistle:
Steve

I don't have the modified oil pan on my 77' KZ1000. But with the stock pan and it's little maze of baffling.... I still get the dreaded RED light on rip you heart out, HARD acceleration, hole shots on hot summer days with a hot engine.
So I don't do it much anymore as watching that zero oil pressure, red light for 12-15 seconds with engine idling... just worries the Hell out of me with a whopping 3psi-5psi oil pressure system.

missionkz wrote:

swest wrote: 40 years without one. Can't be SO bad. :whistle:
Steve

I don't have the modified oil pan on my 77' KZ1000. But with the stock pan and it's little maze of baffling.... I still get the dreaded RED light on rip you heart out, HARD acceleration, hole shots on hot summer days with a hot engine.
So I don't do it much anymore as watching that zero oil pressure, red light for 12-15 seconds with engine idling... just worries the Hell out of me with a whopping 3psi-5psi oil pressure system.

In the 70's we had the Z1E 900, the thing was a freak, standard not much would touch it from the lights BUT it also had the dreaded red light, at the time we never knew about the oil gate, luckily the only damage after lots of kilometers the replaceable outer crank bearing.
Don't delay do it now. On your KZ it would be simple (unlike my GPZ)

Bozo wrote: The pan looks like the KZ1000 (they can use the same gasket), the gate just opens against the valve but really its a tight squeeze. If you look at an oil pan the zig zag fins run very close to this relief valve.

The valve itself, the only purpose I can see for it is if the oil filter blocks or there is some obstruction in the oil gallery, I can't see what other purpose it has, I don't think it matters if the oil pressure is greater on startup (thicker oil) and at higher revs when the oil is warm the pressure is lucky to get to 9psi, so I'm tempted to remove it unless someone comes up with a better reason for it being there.

Zed1015, if you read this, you mentioned to do this to the kz1100 (GPZ1100 in Oz), do you know if the valve is removed?.

Ok! just fit the gate and leave the relief valve on the pump.
The gate is there to prevent oil surging away from the pump pickup allowing it to draw air.
The gate not opening wide is not an issue as long as it can close.
Remember that with the correct amount of oil in the engine (even on the lowest window mark) the level is much higher than the sump gasket face and the cast- in baffles so the gate not opening wide won't impede oil flow to the pump which I guess is what concerned you.

Zed1015 Yes that oil flow did concern me but you are right, the oil level should be above that point. I did take the relief valve off yesterday as I don't believe it does anything except when the filter is blocked but considering I do regular changes and checks, I'm not worried about some kind of hydraulic lock.
I still have another problem with the gate valve when the it is fitted, I put the screw in the same area as the MTC gate and guess what? the valve doesn't clear it, even if I use a counter sunk head on the plate :woohoo: :blush: . KAWASAKI HATES ME

Kawasaki Doesnt Hate You BOZO

Kawasaki Is Just testing Your Faith

Dave