So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam

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30 Apr 2016 19:35 #723850 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
It's just in the casting where the drive butts up against it. I just made an offer on a drive for mine and it was accepted. $25 shipped. It's DIGIDAVE :angry: The guy that wants gold for his stuff. I didn't notice until after I made the offer. Mine is slightly bent but I don't want to give this jerk my money. I'll have one unpaid item in 10 years but that's my problem.
I've bent them putting in exhaust cams by not being careful. I pull them out now. Mine looked fine too but there is a little wag in the tach. It don't take much.
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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30 Apr 2016 20:20 #723855 by Topper
Replied by Topper on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
Is the tach gear supposed to butt up against the head? I didn't have it nearly that far in.
Permanent and perpetual noob.

1979 KZ750 Twin
2009 Kawasaki Versys

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30 Apr 2016 20:38 #723858 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
On the big fours they do. It's in a channel below the cam where it slides under and butts up against the stop. Does yours have a keeper, circlip or something on it? Pic?
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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30 Apr 2016 20:41 #723860 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
Looks like yours is in the valve cover by your first pic.
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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01 May 2016 05:07 #723886 by Topper
Replied by Topper on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
No keeper or circlip. It just slides under the cam and is held in by the tach cable.

There's a lot of play with the gear in the guide. It slides back and forth a lot.

I think I must not be inserting it far enough. I'm just surprised that has this kind of catastrophic result.
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1979 KZ750 Twin
2009 Kawasaki Versys

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01 May 2016 05:37 #723888 by wrenchmonkey
Replied by wrenchmonkey on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
I have not seen a pic of the tach gear receiver/boss yet? I just went back through the whole thread and only see the pic of of the camshaft's tach gear all shredded.

What does the twin's tach gear mount with Topper? You said "a lot of play with the gear in the guide"...This sounds suspect to me. I've only ever owned one Kawi twin but nothing about motor was ever "sliding back and forth a lot".

Is it possible your bike has some kind of custom-worked cylinder head that was modified to fit something else at that cam gear / tach gear interface?
'82 KZ550a
'79 KZ650c
'82 CSR 1000

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01 May 2016 06:21 #723898 by Topper
Replied by Topper on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam

wrenchmonkey wrote: I have not seen a pic of the tach gear receiver/boss yet? I just went back through the whole thread and only see the pic of of the camshaft's tach gear all shredded.

What does the twin's tach gear mount with Topper? You said "a lot of play with the gear in the guide"...This sounds suspect to me. I've only ever owned one Kawi twin but nothing about motor was ever "sliding back and forth a lot".

Is it possible your bike has some kind of custom-worked cylinder head that was modified to fit something else at that cam gear / tach gear interface?


When I take the valve cover off, I'll take more pics for you. The tach gear setup on my twin matches the parts diagrams perfectly. And there's been no custom work that I can tell.

What I mean by the play is that with the tach guide inserted fully, you can still slide the tach gear in an out a fair bit without moving the guide. There's no circlip or anything that holds it in place. The gear slides into the guide, the guide slides into the head, the tach cable fitting screws into the head holding everything in place.

I'm starting to form a suspicion. I'll have to confirm it later today or tomorrow, but I'm starting to think the guide isn't fully seating, allowing the tach gear to move around and that's what's shredding the cams.
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1979 KZ750 Twin
2009 Kawasaki Versys

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01 May 2016 06:46 - 01 May 2016 06:47 #723904 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
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01 May 2016 16:16 - 01 May 2016 16:17 #723986 by Topper
Replied by Topper on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
I pulled the valve cover. Other than the shredded worm gear on the camshaft, everything looks fine. Nothing else crazy or unexpected seems to have happened with the camshaft swap.

Here's the whole tach gear assembly.

Attachment 14621438443295[1].jpg not found



The gear itself

Attachment 14621438110160[1].jpg not found



This pic is really exaggerated. It's not really that bent, in fact most of the time it's really hard to tell if it's bent at all. I think there's an optical illusion going on with the direction of the gear splines here. But at times it does look SLIGHTLY bent. Not sure when in this process that happened, but it's definitely time for a new one.

Attachment 14621438110251[1].jpg not found



The next two photos show the play I was talking about. This is after pushing the guide in as far as I could by hand using a socket like a bearing press.

Attachment 14621438442923[1].jpg not found



Attachment 14621438443224[1].jpg not found



I can definitely get it further in by attaching the tach cable fitting and using a wrench. It'll tighten up and the play goes away. At that point the back of the gear is butting up against the head. Should it be that far in?

I tried to get some photos of the spot where the gear contacts the head, but won't be able to get anything good until I take the cam out.
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1979 KZ750 Twin
2009 Kawasaki Versys
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Last edit: 01 May 2016 16:17 by Topper.

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01 May 2016 16:21 #723987 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
Yes. It's supposed to rest against the cast in stop. I'd replace both items. I'm going to ask the seller if he has the holder for $10. If he says yes, I'll buy it. :dry:
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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01 May 2016 19:08 - 01 May 2016 19:12 #724021 by zukdave
Replied by zukdave on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
All that tach drive stuff is junk find a new one.
Look's to me the cam was installed with it in place and that bent the gear
and wore out the rest and trashed the cam.
1980 KZ650 F1
ZX750A1 motor.
Wiseco 810cc kit.
Zukiworks racing ported head.
VM 29 smooth bore's.
Dyna 2000 Ign. w/Dyna mini coil's
APE cylinder stud's and nut's.
APE valve spring's.
APE Track King clutch.
V/H KZ1000 sidewinder.
3.5x18 laced to a KZ1000 disk hub.
150/60/18 Shinko 006 Podium.
63" wheel base.
Last edit: 01 May 2016 19:12 by zukdave.

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01 Jun 2016 19:00 #729584 by Topper
Replied by Topper on topic So, how screwed am I? - Exhaust cam
Ok, third cam seems to be the charm. Got a new cam and new tach gear this time. Carefully put everything together again and i seem to be in business.

Don't know what to make of this. My best theory is that I didn't get the tach gear all the way in the first time. Must have damaged the tach gear and that tore up cam #2.

New cam and tach gear did the trick.
Permanent and perpetual noob.

1979 KZ750 Twin
2009 Kawasaki Versys

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