Tore it down a bit.......

As long as there is no deep ring grove a valve job should get you going again.

I wish i could get my name on one of Larrys job orders. :laugh:

the discoloration your seeing is from extra heat on the exhaust side possibly from the cams being out phase how long did the bike run like that for

timebomb33 wrote:

the discoloration your seeing is from extra heat on the exhaust side possibly from the cams being out phase how long did the bike run like that for

about 900 miles tim.....it had good power and started right up....just would nt idle below like 1800 rpm....i finally pulled my head out my butt and decided to re-visit cam timing.....apparently i can count to 28, but i dont know what "level" is......:laugh:

roy-b-boy-b wrote:

As long as there is no deep ring grove a valve job should get you going again.

I wish i could get my name on one of Larrys job orders. :laugh:

i gotta look at the head....it was all redone with new seals and guides and a valve job......i m not gonna be a happy camper if it needs redone....

"just wouldn't idle below like 1800 rpm"...
Explain more in depth for this is odd I would think... May also explain why all the smoke at start up. Fuel/air mixture not right or something....

Plugs carbon, oily, gas wet etc...?

Also, which valve seals did you use?
I recently had mine replaced with OEM seals for similar smoke issues... Not quite a crop duster but it did smoke quite a bit at start up with the non OEM seals...

Spoke with Larry and Plum on this seal issue... Seems non OEM just aren't manufactured as well and can prematurely go sour/leak... Babbitts.com, seals $9 each....

In my case with the cold start up and plug conditions...
I couldn't use the choke at all, would start right up but smoked more than I liked...

Plug rings still a tad on the carbon side so dropped to a 52 slow jet (leaner) on my CR specials. With new seals and leaner jet, Barely smokes at all now on start up. New plugs in and will keep an eye on their conditions after a good ride and some time in the seat for performances at idle/low to mid range.

Send to Larry for sure...

Dave

Old Man Rock wrote:

"just wouldn't idle below like 1800 rpm"...
Explain more in depth for this is odd I would think... May also explain why all the smoke at start up. Fuel/air mixture not right or something....

Plugs carbon, oily, gas wet etc...?

Also, which valve seals did you use?
I recently had mine replaced with OEM seals for similar smoke issues... Not quite a crop duster but it did smoke quite a bit at start up with the non OEM seals...

Spoke with Larry and Plum on this seal issue... Seems non OEM just aren't manufactured as well and can prematurely go sour/leak... Babbitts.com, seals $9 each....

In my case with the cold start up and plug conditions...
I couldn't use the choke at all, would start right up but smoked more than I liked...

Plug rings still a tad on the carbon side so dropped to a 52 slow jet (leaner) on my CR specials. With new seals and leaner jet, Barely smokes at all now on start up. New plugs in and will keep an eye on their conditions after a good ride and some time in the seat for performances at idle/low to mid range.

Send to Larry for sure...

Dave

dave,
the funny thing is that it didnt smoke at all untill i reset the cams. with the cams slightly out of phase, bike would idle at 1800...any attempts to lower idle rpm resulted in idle just dropping off and dying every time......i had someone go through head and i dont know what kind of seals he used...
i really didnt want to go through this motor again, but with the smoking for 20 secs when cold and the bits i found on plug magnet, i figured i would try to catch some thing before it became real expensive...i still havent found the source of the bits...i m still gonna drop pan and give the tranny a look see....it shifts fine, but maybe something is going south there....i dont know..i ll see what develops......

"the funny thing is that it didnt smoke at all untill i reset the cams"

Reset the cams how?
Are we speaking of adjustable cam sprockets, pin counts, CAM Degreeing, ignition timing etc....

If cams placed back where they where (Pre-reset), still smoke?

"with the cams slightly out of phase"... You recently wrote on that and I must still be miss understanding on your findings regarding this...

Example was in your replying where the ignition timing was out (ignition plate rotation).

With those cams and adjustable cam sprockets, lobe centers dialed in?

Keep at it big man, you'll find the answer to your dilemma.. There's numerous ppl here with way more experience in these old machines than you and I have put together so the answers there, somewhere and you just have to find it no doubt...

Dave

sounds like you were a tooth off on the exhaust side , if I am reading it right.

the pic of the head lookeds like you are getting a lot of oil thru the valve guide.

Did you run a compression check before you troe it back down?

my 10 cents worth, I would take the head apart, check the valve stem seals and guides again, also look at the seats and the seat area of the valve.
my main concern is psooibly a slightly bent valve since it was run with the cams off.

fill ports full of solvent and blow comressed air around edge of valve and seat if you see bubbles in port ya got issues with valve,flip head over and repeat on other side.

"my main concern is psooibly a slightly bent valve since it was run with the cams off."... exactly!

Keith, please explain how and where the cams where off again. Please be detailed in your explanation as possible for now the search for the truth is on our minds as well...

Our angst is with you brother....

Dave

angst! did he say angst? :laugh: check the valve /seat seal 1st before getting too worried.

PLUMMEN wrote:

angst! did he say angst? :laugh: check the valve /seat seal 1st before getting too worried.

dave, believe me ..no angst involved at all...just trying to make sure something small doesnt turn big...i have some time over the winter and a decent garage and tools, so why not try to answer a couple questions i keep asking myself and in turn you guys as to my smoke issue..
cams are set with 1/4 at tdc (t)...arrow on exhaust cam should lie at lip of head and basically the 28 mark should be at 12 o clock on intake cam...should be 28 pins starting with the pin above the arrow and 28 pins should coincide with the 28 mark on intake sprocket ...i set my exhaust cam with the arrow about 3/4 of an inch above where it should have been...it was where the cam wanted to sit and i know now theres a little more finnessing involved to get it to sit right where it should be...this in turn had the 28 mark at like 10 or 11 o clock instead of the 12 o clock position....the pin count was right, but basically my tdc for 1/4 wasnt truly tdc once motor was running......i am running stock sprockets by the way...