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TOPIC: Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw)

Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 05:49 #667608

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Steve, I am not taking sides either way. And have no reason to doubt your claim. Only thing is I don't believe you can end up with a 1015 motor. Here is why. Cylindrical volume is V=πr2h (the radius r is squared). So in your case it would be bore for a 1015 motor is 69.4 mm (diameter) which is 3.47 cm radius. And the crank on a Z2 is 58 mm which makes the cylinder volume highiet of 5.8 cm. plug everything you get the following displacement

(pi)*(3.47)sq*(5.8) then times 4 (four cylinders) = 877.60 cc

Smaller than your original 903 cc motor. Now, can the rods from your 903 engine have been used in place of the 750 rods (don't know if that is possible, I have no clue)? In that case, it would have made it a 1015 motor. But like say, I have no doubt you that you are using that crank. Don't have to prove anything to anyone man. So don't get rushed into anything.
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 06:16 #667612

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It does seem to be a little detuned with the stock 1015 pistons. With the cast or billet pistons, the deck height was even. With the stock ones, it was about 2 mm lower thus lowering compression. All i had then was a German made caliper so I didn't measure it. I now have a digital one and will show the depth with the stock pistons and compare with the 10.25/1 Wiseco's. 58-66 is quite a jump and 8 mm would be hard to miss. If the throws on the crank are shorter, wouldn't the rods be also? I was oblivious to this issue until now. I want to know too. I remember a stamp on the counter balance and the rods have markings as well. It would be helpful to know what the Z2 markings are to compare. If I have to go back to a 903 crank to get the ponies this bike deserves, then so be it. There was interest in this crank for a member's turbo build. We'll see. B)
Steve
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 07:16 #667624

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Just checked eBay for a Z2 crank. Lots of plain bearing KZ 750's and some triple cranks too. No Z2 750 cranks. I don't trust eBay and If I do buy a 903 crank, it will probably be from The Old Kaw Guy. He's always treated me right.
I bought a new throttle cable while there. The one I have is almost two years old.
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 07:28 #667626

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Bought these in 13 too.
Steve




$250 OUCH
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 08:59 #667635

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It seems to me that part of the confusion is that overbore piston kits are typically labeled with the resulting displacement, not the piston diameter. Wiseco sells a 1015, 1045, 1075, etc. So it seems perfectly natural to say that you have a "1015 kit" in your engine even if you were using a short stroke crank. We all understand that you wouldn't actually have 1015cc, but it's a very easy way to communicate which pistons you purchased.

I think the idea of running a short stroke crank seems pretty cool, depending on how far into the red you can safely build the valvetrain to go. Modern bike engines are all way oversquare.

The stroke of the Z2 crank has been established, but no one seems to know if the rod length was altered. It seems possible that Kawasaki used the same deck height for both the Z1 and Z2, and just used longer connecting rods to compensate for the shorter stroke length. If that were the case, then a Z2 crank should drop into a Z1 with no changes at all. Does anyone know the rod length, or relative deck height of a Z2 compared to a Z1?
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 10:29 #667647

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I think the idea of running a short stroke crank seems pretty cool, depending on how far into the red you can safely build the valvetrain to go. Modern bike engines are all way oversquare.

Yup, also I think just boring out with oversize pistons alone won't make big power gains without more cam and other tuning work. It is more about a motor's valve time area than capacity imo.

Has a 'bored and stroked' under square motor been done before on a zed?
1980 Gpz550 D1, 1981 GPz550 D1. 1982 GPz750R1. 1983 z1000R R2. all four aces
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 10:31 #667648

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etbike3135 wrote: hows that 4 valve piston working in your motor?

Im wondering what kind of camshafts you use with 1 4 valve piston.
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 10:34 #667649

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Tyrell Corp wrote: I think the idea of running a short stroke crank seems pretty cool, depending on how far into the red you can safely build the valvetrain to go. Modern bike engines are all way oversquare.

Yup, also I think just boring out with oversize pistons alone won't make big power gains without more cam and other tuning work. It is more about a motor's breathing than capacity.

Has a 'bored and stroked' under square motor been done before on a zed?

If you could find pistons with the right pin location it would probably be a riot to ride in a light bike. ;)
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 10:49 #667650

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Yes, this is possible, using a short stroke z400J crank with a wiseco "610cc " kit bored out 550 block, same pin size. The rods and forged one piece crank are bulletproof but I think there are factors limiting rpm on any 8 valve ,

Short stroke would lose some bottom end tourque, something the big old kz were good at, the later GPz more power but a lot more 'cammy'.

Good luck on the build Steve, you have most of the bits and the vision for something really nice there.
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 10:58 #667652

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Its like a 396/427 chevy versus a 454 chevy.The 427 and 454 have the same bore,but the 427 uses the same stroke as 366/396 which makes it a real riot to drive . :woohoo:
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 11:04 #667653

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PLUMMEN wrote: Its like a 396/427 chevy versus a 454 chevy.The 427 and 454 have the same bore,but the 427 uses the same stroke as 366/396 which makes it a real riot to drive . :woohoo:


Was thinking the same thing ..... the 383 Chevy and the 302 Z28 motor too. ;)
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 12:49 #667661

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You've got to be kidding. The 4 valve piston was Z1E's fault. Like I said, it set me back two weeks. They didn't have just one piston to send me like now. It will cost me $125 for a new piston, figure in gaskets and we're looking at $200. As it is, I'm burning up rear tires. Makes it tough to save the money and keep up with what the bike needs normally.
I'll do it.
Steve
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 12:56 #667663

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BTW, I have 1X Andrews cams in the bike. They're supposed to improve low end. Blakeem put up the specs. I sent him.
Steve
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 13:39 #667669

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Per Dave Marsden:

THE Z2 WAS IDENTICAL TO THE LARGER BIKE IN DESIGN EXCEPT FOR THE DISPLACEMENT OF JUST 746 CC AND SMALLER 26MM CARBS.
IT WAS ONLY OFFERED IN THE BROWN AND ORANGE COLOUR OPTION FOR THAT YEAR.
ENGINEER INAMURA DECIDED THAT SIMPLY REDUCING THE BORE SIZE OF THE Z1 WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. INSTEAD KAWASAKI CHANGED THE BORE AND THE STROKE TO 64MM X 58MM. THIS CHANGE REQUIRED A DIFFERENT CRANKSHAFT, CYLINDERS, PISTONS, PINS AND RINGS. THE REST OF THE MOTOR REMAINED THE SAME.

Good Fortune! :)
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 14:11 #667674

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Patton wrote: THE Z2 WAS IDENTICAL TO THE LARGER BIKE IN DESIGN EXCEPT FOR THE DISPLACEMENT OF JUST 746 CC .... THIS CHANGE REQUIRED A DIFFERENT CRANKSHAFT, CYLINDERS, PISTONS, PINS AND RINGS. THE REST OF THE MOTOR REMAINED THE SAME.


Hmm, that still doesn't answer the question. The mention of different "cylinders" could imply a different deck height, but it could also just be that they changed the casting to fit smaller sleeves.

Based on my impression that the Z2 only existed because of the law limiting motorcycles to 750cc, and that the Z2 was a Z1 with minimal modifications to meet this legal requirement, it does seem possible that they bid not bother to change the deck height of the Z2 from the Z1. This may not have provided the optimal stroke to connecting rod ratio, but it would certainly make the conversion easier.

Here is another angle. Can anyone figure out if the Z2 shares the same cam chain as the Z1 (same number of links)? If the deck height were the same, wouldn't the cam chain length also be the same?
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 14:48 #667679

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YES.
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 15:26 #667685

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My camera is a battery hog. I tried to take some pics of the blocks with my bike cam.
Steve



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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 15:30 #667686

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The one on the bike says 1015. I'm charging the cam. I'll get another on in the sun in a few minutes.
Steve

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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 15:46 #667687

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May not be useful but I have a standard set of 1015s at home as paper weights. If you want to send back the Pistons you bought and use mine let me know. Would save you some serious coin. I def want to see this crank. Maybe this bully of yours (I'm not taking sides but it seems excessive) will drop Ya 100 bucks to tear down the bike to see the crank. Put his money where his mouth is? I know if I was so sure, I'd do it. But I don't know anything about this stuff.
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Z2 750 crank (Bossie the Kaw) 12 Apr 2015 16:12 #667690

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Thanks for the offer. I have a set of stock 1015's in the bike now. I will buy another 10.25/1 piston as I said in time. I'm in no hurry.
As for the bully, they are all cowards. They never put up or shut up.
Steve
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