Learning to ride; habits and resources

When I was 17 and a volunteer EMT with my local Ambulance Assn, I watched a drunk biker die in my ambulance because he was speeding, dumped it on railroad tracks, and didn't fasten his chin strap. A stream of blood shooting out his intubation tube (his face was literally too broken to bag him with a face mask) ensured I'll always wear a helmet despite my state recently repealing their helmet law. In fact that incident kept me off motorcycles for almost 20 years. I just find it odd, that I asked what that "a lot of information in the riding class" is because I'd rather not blow an entire weekend in the class, and consequently my wife's weekend, and I want to practice it. In response I get a bunch condescension and scare tactics. I asked what the alternatives to MSF are and I'm told road rash, emergency rooms, and funerals, WTF?

WTF is your mindset, that's what you'd learn sitting in a class. You ask for advice, habits to learn and resources, IT'S IN THE THREAD TITLE, so you get : Habits, how to learn to ride, and resources you can consult to learn other things you may not already know. Unless you sit through, admittedly, a BORING ASS training class, you won't get specific items that may help you. In fact, it's trying to pick and choose the things you THINK you need to know that will absolutely prevent you from learning the things you don't know, because you don't know them.

It's your mindset. If you don't think you can learn anything from those classes you wont; if you don't think any of the repeated and repeated and repeated advice won't help you, it will most certainly not help you. You have to pick this stuff up yourself, and be willing to accept the fact that you don't know it well enough that you have to ask other people for advice. Seriously, the attitude about already knowing enough to skip those classes, I've seen the wrecked bikes from dudes who had that exact same attitude. Dudes who thought to themselves that THEY had the right of way, and that for some reason some stupid idiot in a pickup truck was going to yeild to them because THEY were right.

Being stubborn is not a mindset that goes well with riding a motorcycle on the road.

AND I did offer you an alternative to the MSF classes. H-D's Rider's Edge course. So there ya go.

gravit8 wrote:

When I was 17 and a volunteer EMT with my local Ambulance Assn, I watched a drunk biker die in my ambulance because he was speeding, dumped it on railroad tracks, and didn't fasten his chin strap. A stream of blood shooting out his intubation tube (his face was literally too broken to bag him with a face mask) ensured I'll always wear a helmet despite my state recently repealing their helmet law. In fact that incident kept me off motorcycles for almost 20 years. I just find it odd, that I asked what that "a lot of information in the riding class" is because I'd rather not blow an entire weekend in the class, and consequently my wife's weekend, and I want to practice it. In response I get a bunch condescension and scare tactics. I asked what the alternatives to MSF are and I'm told road rash, emergency rooms, and funerals, WTF?

WTF is your mindset, that's what you'd learn sitting in a class. You ask for advice, habits to learn and resources, IT'S IN THE THREAD TITLE, so you get : Habits, how to learn to ride, and resources you can consult to learn other things you may not already know. Unless you sit through, admittedly, a BORING ASS training class, you won't get specific items that may help you. In fact, it's trying to pick and choose the things you THINK you need to know that will absolutely prevent you from learning the things you don't know, because you don't know them.

It's your mindset. If you don't think you can learn anything from those classes you wont; if you don't think any of the repeated and repeated and repeated advice won't help you, it will most certainly not help you. You have to pick this stuff up yourself, and be willing to accept the fact that you don't know it well enough that you have to ask other people for advice. Seriously, the attitude about already knowing enough to skip those classes, I've seen the wrecked bikes from dudes who had that exact same attitude. Dudes who thought to themselves that THEY had the right of way, and that for some reason some stupid idiot in a pickup truck was going to yeild to them because THEY were right.

Being stubborn is not a mindset that goes well with riding a motorcycle on the road.

AND I did offer you an alternative to the MSF classes. H-D's Rider's Edge course. So there ya go.

I was writing that while you posted, It was meant for 650ed (and others who responded in kind) which is why he's quoted in it. I hadn't even read what you posted when hit reply. I appreciate your post and advice as well as those who took the time to give me tips and point to some very interesting reads/videos; apologies for the confusion.

edit:
In fact your post is the closest to changing my mind. I'll think it over a bit more. Thanks again.

Kidkawie wrote: I don't see how knowing what counter steering is can help a rider. I mean, it's good to know (I guess) but it's not a skill or anything.

I think the biggest skill one can learn is emergency braking and using body position to counter the bikes momentum.

Are you serious ?

Realizing that you are taking a turn faster than you should is no time to slam on the brakes, it's time to counter steer and believe in it.

I know people that have died because they didn't know that.

JD

Hey Mull, I read through the thread and I understand you are a little frustrated.
Ask 10 guys what's the best way to learn to ride and you'll get 15 answers.
For the basics, an MSF course is a good investment in time. You will outgrow what you learn in short time yes, especially if you are riding a lot. Here's the value in this course, though. You will be out on that tarmac with a bunch of other riders in the same or similar situation as you, there will be instructors running around that tarmac watching you and correcting you in real time. This is a great classroom, you will be open to learning new things in a group setting and you will build some confidence knowing that at the end of the day, you are doing it right.
They can't make you a great rider, that will have to come with experience. What they can do is give you a basis, a starting point to grow from. Rote muscle memorization and conditioned reaction is what you need. This does not come instantaneously.
From there, you can attend more and more advanced classes and improve your skill as you go.
I've been riding for a long, long time and I still attend classes on a regular basis. We have monthly skills classes and they are a blast. Get in the "train to stay alive" mindset and you will enjoy your riding 100x more.
Just do it, the value is way more than just a "lost weekend".
Besides, you get insurance discounts and in some states, you can go get your license and skip the skills portion of the test.
Oh, if you're worried that it's going to be boring because the instructors are just going through the motions like your driver's ed class, no need. Remember they are riders too.

bluej58 wrote:

Kidkawie wrote: I don't see how knowing what counter steering is can help a rider. I mean, it's good to know (I guess) but it's not a skill or anything.

I think the biggest skill one can learn is emergency braking and using body position to counter the bikes momentum.

Are you serious ?

Realizing that you are taking a turn faster than you should is no time to slam on the brakes, it's time to counter steer and believe in it.

I know people that have died because they didn't know that.

JD

Not to mention that if you haven't practiced it until it is second nature - even if we all do it by nature not to fall over, it's not enough to work under stress - you will steer directly into what you try to avoid. A car pulls out in front if you and you turn the handlebars to swerve, only the bike will turn the wrong way and you steer directly into what you tried to avoid.

Jesus, you keep on going on about wasting a whole weekend, what were you planning on curing cancer that day or what?

Tomolu5 wrote: Jesus, you keep on going on about wasting a whole weekend, what were you planning on curing cancer that day or what?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Sorry, I really had a chuckle over that one.

If I may suggest another worthwhile investment?

www.amazon.ca/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ul...id=1339625342&sr=1-2

I have to say that I really enjoyed the motorcycling class I took a few years ago despite it being boring in the early bits, and being stuck on a Yamy 125... I quickly forgot about all that once I realized I was actually having fun. But, I won't flog a dead horse here. Take the course or don't.

This book however, I think is worth the money. Hough is an experienced rider, with an understand of both road behaviour, motorcyle physics/dynamics and motorcycling mental state. I've read more than a few books on riding, and this is the one I would suggest, hands down, no question.

NOT that reading a book will help you with muscle memory and reaction times when the s&*t hits the fan, but perhaps it will at least inspire you to spend some time in a big parking lot with some traffic cones and a buddy and learn a little more about YOUR bike, and how it handles under duress.

All that may or may not make you have a second think about and MSF. Maybe not, truthfully, I can't speak to those courses since they don't exist (to my knowledge) in Canada, or at least in any place I've lived, which is a fair few places.

Hope that is potentially helpful without being incendiary.

Cheers,

Jon

Tomolu5 wrote: Jesus, you keep on going on about wasting a whole weekend, what were you planning on curing cancer that day or what?

Let's just say I got family issues that make getting away for 4 hrs friday evening and then 10hrs on sat and sun rather hard on my wife. All morning or all evening during the week would worse. It one of those things that better really effIng worth for the shit I'll catch. Thanks for understanding.

Consider the alternative, my man, consider the alternative.
If you were in my neck of the woods I would be willing to spend a couple of hours with you in the evening each day going over the basics until you had it down. You got a friend nearby that is willing to hang with you and do that?

Where are you from anyhow? If your local i would be willing to go with you. For what its worth though, in Pa the class is free, instructors are pretty cool, and they are definitly worth the flack you will take. I hate school/safety crap, and the first 8 hrs or so of the class kinda suck, but after that you build real world skills, ones that I have used and needed.

Just keep this thread going. Not only you, but I'm sure others are getting a chance to review their ideas about riding safety. If attending the course is really a difficult logistical challenge for you, bring the discussion here and let these guys help you out. Keep an open mind as you have already shown to be willing to and time will reveal to you what's best.
I get it now that you're not knocking the MFS course. You mainly just want some feedback on whether or not it's worth the extra effort to work it in. So far, to me, it seems like the polling is in favor of taking it.
It's required by law in Texas before you can qualify to take the written portion of getting the MC endorsement. I, however took the course before all that came into effect. I took it because it had been discussed here and, like I said, I felt it would make me more confident as I was re-learning. As it turns out I'm looking forward to taking the advanced course as I've become increasingly serious about riding.
Good luck, and keep it safe!

buy every magazine out there that you like and read em over and over...the letters...the ads...the info stuff...the tech articles...you never know till later...after a scare..... what will be the thing that saved you that you read....

but for sure get sub to
cycle world
motorcyclist
on line get
cycle news weekly
roadracing world

read cycle news the mag,cover to cover...every word...it will save your life...

cycle news and motorcyclist are dirt cheap subscriptions if you get the one in the store it has subscribe now cards in it for like 2 yrs for 12-20 bucks


ride every day and read every day and watch you tube every day about bikes and bike stuff...watch motogp...watch folks in traffic on bikes ,,,,,,always watch and read and ride...

imo.... this is the path