Learning to ride; habits and resources

I'm a new rider and I've been clocking a good amount of time on my kz650. It's been a month since I got my permit and I've put 125 miles on the bike. A lot of people recommend the MSF course but I honestly can't see myself taking it. Researching it online, comments like "After sitting on the bike, leaning it, rocking it back and forth, and going over the controls, you walk your bike about 25-30' in the friction zone, do a wide turn and come back. You do that for maybe an hour." really turn me off to it. Also the class gets ragged on by the people I'm learning to ride with, namely because teaching someone to ride without going over 25mph isn't really teaching someone to ride. I tend to agree, for me riding changes dramatically right around 55mph.

Recently on the forums it was suggested that I get into one of these classes before "I learn too many bad habits." Which had me wondering what are the bad habits? What are the good habits? I'm definitely willing to put time into learning proper techniques and practicing them. Are there any good resources online or books, or anything else that I can learn the good habits from? I'd love to learn the "correct way to ride" without blowing an entire weekend on a 250 Rebel.

MSF does offer more than beginner classes here in Michigan so you might want to inquire about their advanced classes.
That being said classes are a great resource , but so is riding with experienced riders and using them as mentors.
I know some of you frown on Harleys , but OH Well.. I was the head Road Captain for Brighton Harley here in Michigan and One of the duties was to help new riders learn to ride in the real world. This means all conditions , traffic and speeds..And in groups..
Find someone you trust and get some seat time in, and once you think you know it all, SLAP YOURSELF Back to reallity and admit their is pleanty more to learn.
First lesson. TRUST no one or anything on the road. Assume nothing is safe and you might live to the see tomorrow.
When driving in your cage (car) pretend you are on your bike and drive defensively and see what the next curve brings.

Sorry bud, but your friends are dopes; take the class. If you want to find out how much your fiends know about riding, ask them if you steer left to go right. If they say "no" they don't know squat about riding. If the say yes, ask them if they can explain why. Ask the to explain target fixation. Take the class; if you only learn 1 thing from it and that 1 thing helps you avoid a crash you will be glad you took it. You are a new rider and there's a ton of stuff you can earn the easy way or the hard way. When I first started riding there were no such classes, so I learned the hard way. Not knowing about the 1st item I mentioned above caused me to hit a tree. Not knowing about the 2nd item above caused me to hit a dump truck. After you take the class find a more advanced class and take it. It won't be long before your riding skills surpass that of your friends. Ed

Learn Counter-steering

650ed wrote: Sorry bud, but your friends are dopes; take the class. If you want to find out how much your fiends know about riding, ask them if you steer left to go right. If they say "no" they don't know squat about riding. If the say yes, ask them if they can explain why. Ask the to explain target fixation. Take the class; if you only learn 1 thing from it and that 1 thing helps you avoid a crash you will be glad you took it. You are a new rider and there's a ton of stuff you can earn the easy way or the hard way. When I first started riding there were no such classes, so I learned the hard way. Not knowing about the 1st item I mentioned above caused me to hit a tree. Not knowing about the 2nd item above caused me to hit a dump truck. After you take the class find a more advanced class and take it. It won't be long before your riding skills surpass that of your friends. Ed

What he said.

Move your eyes constantly; PLAN AHEAD; always have an escape; leave lots of room; EVERY intersection, sit up, relax, look again and again, be ready to brake; from the moment you get on to the moment you get off, jack up your mental focus.

X2 on "trust no one..." but I take it to a higher level -- traffic NEVER SEES YOU. They are all 2-ton sledge hammers ready to swing from any angle.

Guy pulled a left in front of me yesterday. Saw it coming two blocks away -- by the time he saw me I was close enough to his door to startle him, but in total control. Won that one.

650ed wrote: Sorry bud, but your friends are dopes; take the class. If you want to find out how much your fiends know about riding, ask them if you steer left to go right. If they say "no" they don't know squat about riding. If the say yes, ask them if they can explain why. Ask the to explain target fixation. Take the class; if you only learn 1 thing from it and that 1 thing helps you avoid a crash you will be glad you took it. You are a new rider and there's a ton of stuff you can earn the easy way or the hard way. When I first started riding there were no such classes, so I learned the hard way. Not knowing about the 1st item I mentioned above caused me to hit a tree. Not knowing about the 2nd item above caused me to hit a dump truck. After you take the class find a more advanced class and take it. It won't be long before your riding skills surpass that of your friends. Ed

The one buddy, yes he knows those two things and he taught them to me, I've practiced them on the road. I know what they are though I'd have a hard time explaining why counter steering works I know it certainly does. He has a decade of experience on two wheels including a recent cross country ride. While I appreciate your input, it really side steps the question. I can't believe that the only ways to learn this stuff is to take the class or almost die. The soonest I can take the class is late July and I hope to have a couple hundred more miles on the bike by then. I also wouldn't look forward to sitting on someone else's donor bike all day in 85+ degF heat wearing a leather jacket, jeans, boots, gloves, and a helmet trying to sift out the things I don't know from the things I do know. (the weekend classes are all day and the only ones that fit my family's schedule) I'll easily admit I don't know everything, I do want to learn, I just don't believe the msf class is the best way for me to learn it and I'm seeking alternatives.

You can learn anyway that works for you , as long as you keep learning.
Our intent is to not take you to the brink of death, just share what has taken a lifetime (over 40 years )of experience to learn out on the road. Mentoring under a very experienced rider will be good, but dont think a class of some type is beneath you or any of us. I reread old text books and motorcycle safety manuals all the time and find I have forgotten some of it and need the reminder. Surf the internet and watch some police motorcyclist training and riding skills contests and you will be awestruck with what can be done on a bike without putting a foot down. Lots of us learned in the dirt which is different , but the same ( figure that one out ).
Practice, Practice , Practice. Learn how to do panic stops in wet and dry conditions.
In the fire service we took classes all the time. As a rookie you learn about dinosaurs, They are extinct because they didnt learn how to adapt to changes in their enviroment, and the same is true of people who dont learn and embrace new ideas and technology. Knowledge can keep you alive

It's obvious to me from the jist of your posts that you want to convince yourself not to take the MSF course. If you don't want to be convinced that it is a good idea then you probably won't be by anything that I have to say.

I know that it doesn't sound like too much fun but you might just be surprized. I rode with no MC endorsement and no MSF class for about ten years before I was convinced that it would be a good idea to go ahead and get legal. Here in Texas they have started to crack down on guys riding without the MC endorsement and now the MSF class is a legal requirement to get the endorsement. I didn't want to pay a heavy fine if I ever got caught so I took the class and got all my ducks in a row.

I don't regret taking that class for one minute. Now I'm sure that different schools will vary, but I enjoyed my class. The instructor taught me some things that I hadn't learned in 10 years on the street. I am an open minded person by nature so doing the mundane stuff didn't bother me too bad. I did get caught banging out some clutchless 1-2 shifts and the instructor didn't like that, but he did appreciate my ability to handle my baby Ninja 250.

Most insurors will give you a 10% rate discount for taking the class. That will pay for the course in just a few years. Plus the school handed out loads of coupons for local MC dealers and Cycle Gear that added up to hundreds in discounts. Plus I got to spend a weekend talking about a hobby that I enjoy with like minded people while riding around on someone else's bike. How bad could that be?

This is the place that I took my course: www.awesomecycles.com/index.cfm
Highly recommended for those in the Greater Houston Metro Area.

I've been riding legally on the street since 1965. I've learned more than a couple things about riding since starting, many of them from books, studies - such as the Hurt Report, motorcycle articles, and many while my butt was in the saddle, so I know there are many ways to learn the nuances of motorcycle riding. It's your butt and your bike, so dismiss the MSF classes as you see fit. However, it seems clear that you have not looked into them or you wouldn't be stating you "wouldn't look forward to sitting on someone else's donor bike...." There are various levels of training and only the beginner's class does not use your own bike. Maybe you should look a little deeper into it before deciding. Also, you really should read the Hurt Report (look it up on the web) as it is by far the most comprehensive report on motorcycle accidents and their causes. You may notice in his summary of 55 findings related to motorcycle accidents "#24. The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents." Whatever you decide, I wish you luck.

Here are just a couple MSF class examples where you're not sitting on someone else's bike...


Basic RiderCourse 2 - License Waiver (BRC2-LW) [formerly ERC Suite]
For riders who already have basic skills. It is similar to the BRC except the speeds are higher and riders should be riding their own motorcycle.

Basic RiderCourse 2 - Skills Practice (BRC2-SP) [formerly ERC Suite]
Similar to BRC2 - License Waiver RiderCourse, but consists of only the riding exercises. It is a perfect way to reinforce basic skills on one's personal motorcycle. Passengers are permitted with a licensed operator on a personal motorcycle.

Advanced RiderCourse (ARC) [formerly ARC-ST]
A one-day course that complements a rider's basic skills and helps with personal risk assessment. It includes a fast-paced classroom segment with several interactive activities to improve perception and hazard awareness. Range exercises enhance both basic skills and crash avoidance skills. Improving braking and cornering finesse is emphasized. The course is beneficial for riders on any type of street motorcycle.

Here's the link;

msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?pagename=Rider...r=MSF%20RiderCourses

There are so many pointers and skills that are gone over in the MSF course that I feel that I was able to re-learn how to ride with much more awareness than I would have had without it. After being out of the saddle for about 28 yrs I thought I would pick it right up again. I tried it and decided I probably needed to familiarize myself with riding in a safer setting. Like I said, it helped me go out there with less fear of messing up. I'm very glad I took it. If anything, I realized how much I really wasn't aware of.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but take the class. I had at least 5 thousand miles under my belt the first time i took it. I thought I was just goin through the paces to get a licensce, then I caught my self learning! Im not some guy that is stuck on safety or something, I've been well over 120mph on one wheel, and close to 200 on two, but I will do 10 back and forth across that parking lot all day in a few weeks. They teach you things you just don't think about, then hone them into instincts. Been back three times, and have no sweat goin again. Also, gloves and long sleeves is all they require. More than once I have thanked them for teaching me how to stop a bike. (the right way). Oh yeah, you probly will struggle in the advance class.