TOPIC:

Okay
 In the interest of spirited debate this thread was allowed to run its course.  
 But for now Im going to lock it down as all opinions  were expressed  and noted . 
Yes this is a  vintage motorcycle site and we should concentrate on that , but I have always enjoyed healthy debate .
And as Bill and I have discussed in the past  ,  wouldnt life be boring if we all shared One  ( Hive ) type mind ???
So for now I am ending this until at least the mods all have time  to  speak about  our next steps
Dave
 

Hi Dave,
Thank you for handling this thread. It has generated quite a bit of interest and more than a few complaints. Some have complained that this is strictly a vintage motorcycle site and I've always hoped it would be that and more. The more is a community of folks who while sharing a common interest (KZs) don't always agree on other topics. To that end I've moved this whole thread to Chat. To those purists who think such discussions are inappropriate, I say 'Stay away from Daily Chatter', doing so will keep your blood pressure within normal bounds.
I've read the whole thread and posted in it once or twice. Generally I'd commend all of you for keeping your comments reasonably civil. I believe we all benefit from exposure to different opinions when they are expressed appropriately, without rancor and insult.
I'm going to reopen this thread please read and post in it with an intention to share and learn.
Bill/KZQ

SWest post=867920This was called fake news on Fb fact (opinion) checkers but if you watched the movie I posted it fits.
Steve
 

I'm kinda thinking that JD Rockefeller (sp?) was more a robber baron than anything else. Perhaps he was the smartest man in the oil industry, that does not diminish his prowess as a robber baron. 
My point is that even if oil is the second most plentiful liquid on earth, that doesn't mean we should dig it up and spread across the environment profligately. In the 1980s I said that the best environmental policy concerning burning fossil fuels was to assure we got the best mileage or most BTUs possible from the oil we extract, and while that wasn't totally off there have been advances in how we engineer our machines that have yielded better, cleaner, outcomes. Perhaps moving to electric powered transportation is an answer. Frankly we don't have that infrastructure or technology yet.
Just Sayin!
Bill

He was ruthless along with some of his peers. Interesting even though Standard oil was broken up he made more money than ever before. Goes to show the Fed isn't the answer. 
Steve

All right. I will play along.
Lets dive into this meme Steve posted and discover how demonstrably false it really is.

There was no 1892 Geneva convention. Furthermore the Geneva convention has nothing to do with oil -  its a wartime humanitarian agreement
www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/geneva-convention 

The term fossil fuels is much older than Rockefeller, “ The term “fossil fuel” was first used by German chemist Caspar Neumann in the index of the 1759 English translation of The Chemical Works of Caspar Neumann.”
eartharchives.psu.edu/2020/04/13/fossil-fuels/  

Fossil fuels are called such because they are derived from ancient life, most of them microscopic bacteria and algae. No one is lying to you by calling them fossil fuels.
www.eia.gov/kids/energy-sources/natural-gas/

The most prevalent liquid is the earth’s molten outer core which is comprised of iron and nickel. Then water. 
education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/core  

The over arching sentiment that oil is plentiful and scarcity is engineered is true. But its not some tin foil hat scheme constructed by Rockefeller over a century ago. Its economics 101.  Demand is currently high because one of the worlds largest oil producers is being sanctioned, and oil companies are intentionally not expanding their growth plans, keeping supply low. They are literally on record saying so. 

“Pioneer Natural Resources' Scott Sheffield said, also in February, "Whether it's $150 oil, $200 oil, or $100 oil, we're not going to change our growth plans. If the president wants us to grow, I just don't think the industry can grow anyway."”

"Shale oil production is going to increase this year, that's for sure. Yet it is becoming abundantly clear that it will not increase as much as the White House or the average driver would like it to increase. The circumstances are quite unfortunate, really. The industry is still recovering from the pandemic, suffering the lingering effects of lockdown-related supply chain breakdowns that have now created shortages and pushed prices higher."

oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-U...ir-Growth-Plans.html

I fact checked this to prove a point.

The original premise of this thread is legitimate. Its something i'm glad to be aware of; that 15% ethanol fuel is likely coming. I actually filled some gas tanks with ethanol free fuel as a precaution.
However, what I took issue with was when "the debate" degraded with both sides making patently false inflammatory claims. I'm all for debate when it can be backed up with legitimate references and data. Fact checking a bogus meme is NOT a debate.

Bill you are 100% right. if i don't like it i shouldn't look at it but it shows up under "recent topics". It doesn't make me want to donate when i see the same cable news partisan crap creeping up here, and i'm willing to bet i'm not alone in that sentiment. Is there no where the culture wars will not invade? 

TLDR: informational memes are bullshit. 

 

I've done my best not to bring politics into my replies though it may have been taken that way. If what you say is true I stand corrected. You did however post a fact check from Reuters on the same subject but then deleted it. They were just recently called out on one of their false fact checks. This time you provided links to your own research and I commend you for that. 
2 years ago we were the #1 exporter. That changed with the new administration on or about day one. That and everything else that's happening can't be taken any other way than as intentional.
Just saying 
Steve   

Steve. a 2 minute google search before you make these claims would do you well. we still are the #1 producer.

www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=709&t=6

Then why are we selling our reserves? 

Doc 
Thanks for the production vs consumtion stats ..
Interesting for sure .
My laymans take away is the US is balanced in production to our needs. But we export to others causing a shortfall here at home.
As a business man I would raise production to cover our commitments  and make a good profit to boot.
So      Are we doing this? Are the oil producers not allowed due to regulations or laws ???
Im sure it is a complex question filled with bullsh t from all ( Government , and Oil C of Os )
I stand by my earlier post of short term pump all the oil needed  and get serious with making alternate energy viable
Gas shot up here in Michigan 40 cents overnight  
and rumors are much higher soon ..Doesnt even matter who is really at fault . Folks vote with there wallets  first and then there other causes . ( Gun laws, abortion , foreign policies,  borders < ect )
This will be a interesting mid term in 2020 and 2022 will be off the charts. 
I enjoyed your posts and feel free to fire broadsides at Swest. I think he likes it. 
But saying anyting about funding wasnt needed as this is your right  to contribute or not at anytime for any reason  and that is just understood.
Dave
 

According to this we produced less in 2021 than 2019. Unless my fat fingers didn’t add right.

www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus1&f=m

2019 = 4,485,652 
2021 = 4,083,492
              (402,160)

The op was a sarcastic PSA. I’m sure it was meant to show the attempt to lower gas prices, as was opening up our SPR. Nothing has worked so far. 

FERC miles of approved pipelines. If you can’t pipe the oil to recover it no sense in drilling. 

www.ferc.gov/industries-data/natural-gas...rojects-1997-present

2019 = 781.94
2021 = 228.02