TOPIC:

I thought that regulator has an adjustment on it. The OregonMotorcycleParts website shows it with an adjustment. Have you lowered the adjuster. It claims to be adjustable to +/- .5 volt. If you can get the battery down to 14.5v, you'd be good to go.

All measurements should be taken with the meter's black lead connected to the battery's negative terminal. Then the red meter lead can be probed to various points.

While at idling after a warmup, did you measure the voltage on the ground wire (black) at the regulator? That should be within .5v of 0v.

Also measure the main fuse. Try to touch only the metal part of the fuse itself. Measure both ends. There will be a voltage drop there due to how fuses work. It would be good to note what a normal drop on the main fuse should be now that you replaced it. You can't get rid of that particular drop (that is the one within the fuse itself). You can only get rid of the drop associated with dirty contacts, which you already did by replacing the holder, but it would be good to know what the fixed drop there should be.

loudhvx wrote: I thought that regulator has an adjustment on it. The OregonMotorcycleParts website shows it with an adjustment. Have you lowered the adjuster. It claims to be adjustable to +/- .5 volt. If you can get the battery down to 14.5v, you'd be good to go.

All measurements should be taken with the meter's black lead connected to the battery's negative terminal. Then the red meter lead can be probed to various points.

While at idling after a warmup, did you measure the voltage on the ground wire (black) at the regulator? That should be within .5v of 0v.

Also measure the main fuse. Try to touch only the metal part of the fuse itself. Measure both ends. There will be a voltage drop there due to how fuses work. It would be good to note what a normal drop on the main fuse should be now that you replaced it. You can't get rid of that particular drop (that is the one within the fuse itself). You can only get rid of the drop associated with dirty contacts, which you already did by replacing the holder, but it would be good to know what the fixed drop there should be.

Super helpful. Thanks! But, after I looked at the bike again, I noticed something:

At Idle now its back up to 15.5v. When I rev it higher it gets back to the normal range of 14.8 - 15v. I can rev it as high as possible and it still wont go above 15.8

HOWEVER, when I put the headlight on , it drops to 13.3v and THEN when I rev it high it EASILY goes to 16.5. I still plan to go through the wiring, but could this by symptomatic of something on the headlight wiring.

If this keeps up, Im putting in a new harness.

Also, what are the consequences of riding the bike when its charging to 15.5? Will I die? lol

That problem, as I mentioned earlier is indicative of bad connections. The resistance in the connections means that as the current in the path increases, the voltage drops in the path increase. This means when the lights are on, the regulator will overcompensate even more than normal.

All of these new symptoms are all indicative of the same problem.

I thought you were going to do the troubleshooting on this coming Friday, but it seems you are doing it now already. It's really busy at work, but I will try to find good places for you to check for voltages. The first one, as I said earlier, is actually at the new fuses (as described in my other post) so we can see what the drop is there.

But you haven't posted a photo of the new regulator or addressed whether or not it is adjustable. That would be good to know.

Also, you don't have to clean all of the connections. Your time can be spent more efficiently if you focus on the actual path related to the regulator. But you will want to know what the voltage drops were before you clean a connection then measure it afterward to know if you made progress. Recording data is a huge part of vehicle maintenance and troubleshooting.

loudhvx wrote:
Also, you don't have to clean all of the connections. Your time can be spent more efficiently if you focus on the actual path related to the regulator. But you will want to know what the voltage drops were before you clean a connection then measure it afterward to know if you made progress. Recording data is a huge part of vehicle maintenance and troubleshooting.

This.

It's not that hard. There are not that many wires involved.

BTW, I had a feeling this whole mess would ensue which is why I suggested converting to a 3 phase system from the beginning. It's dead simple to set up and relatively cheap.

".....BTW, I had a feeling this whole mess would ensue which is why I suggested converting to a 3 phase system from the beginning. It's dead simple to set up and relatively cheap."

His bike is a 1977 KZ650, so the stock charging system is 3-phase. Ed

650ed wrote: ".....BTW, I had a feeling this whole mess would ensue which is why I suggested converting to a 3 phase system from the beginning. It's dead simple to set up and relatively cheap."

His bike is a 1977 KZ650, so the stock charging system is 3-phase. Ed

I should have said a conventional 3 phase charging system. Without that field coil business and a sense wire going though the ignition.

Well, while the later, permanent-magnet, 3-phase systems are simpler, they suffer the same problem of voltage losses affecting regulator operation. The only ones that don't are the 1-phase systems. They don't use a sense line for the regulator. They detect the output voltage which is connected to the battery.

The '77 3-phase version is more efficient and has a wider load capability because of it. Note he mentioned he was easily getting 16v with lights on and the extra load of the Dyna S. You will never see that on the permanent-magnet bikes. With normal points ignition they can often idle at 14v with lights on. Again, you won't see that with the PM bikes. It's pretty much why every car made after the 1960's uses this type of alternator.

And while the charging system is more complicated, there is no added complication to the voltage loss issue. It's still one single path to the regulator that needs to be looked at. The same would exist on the later 3-phase PM systems.

The real problem is probably the extra load of the Dyna S, but I suspect even with the stock ignition he would have to do this work, it's just that the symptoms wouldn't be as severe.

I have never done a large amount of work on any bike without completely rewiring it from scratch. They've all needed it. It's actually a lot faster for me than troubleshooting every nickel and dime electrical problem that comes along. They've all had multiple weak spots in the harness if not outright broken wires. I always autopsy the harness remnants afterwards. The area around the steering is often in the worst shape of the entire harness.

Hopefully this link works.
This is a full-size diagram with switch logic charts included for the 77 Kz650B1.
I also cleaned up the background noise, fixed the color alignment, and condensed the image into a tighter footprint.

s3.amazonaws.com/loudfiles/KawKz650B1_1977_app225_cleaned.gif

The diagram makes it clear that the regulator is at the very end of the switched 12v brown wire path. You have to check voltages all the way back to the battery to see where it's being lost. I will post more suggestions on where to look specifically.

loudhvx wrote: Hopefully this link works.
This is a full-size diagram with switch logic charts included for the 77 Kz650B1.
I also cleaned up the background noise, fixed the color alignment, and condensed the image into a tighter footprint.

s3.amazonaws.com/loudfiles/KawKz650B1_1977_app225_cleaned.gif

The diagram makes it clear that the regulator is at the very end of the switched 12v brown wire path. You have to check voltages all the way back to the battery to see where it's being lost. I will post more suggestions on where to look specifically.

I only had about 15 min to devote to the bike today but I have good news!

I saw a connector loose on the right side and secured it. Then I checked the voltage across the battery at idle. It is now 14.8 at 1,500 RPMS and DOES NOT go over 15.01V even at 5k RPM (like it did yesterday). So the hunt continues on the loose connectors/grounds, to get the voltage down to like 14.4 at idle or even lower.

That is great news!

So is the regulator adjustable?

This diagram highlights where to check for voltage losses.

Finally you can be quiet about this

waktaylor wrote: Finally you can be quiet about this

lol

Exhibit A: kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/609516-wakt-out-1977-kz650