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Electronic ignition questions
- gumby prichard
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also say i was able to get my hands on a 440 ignition or an 82-83 750 twin ignition, are these plug and play? and im guessing i would have to purchase the igniter(cdi) box as well? is this all plug in or will i have to splice some wires? and can you give me everything i will need to convert from points system to electronic system?
78 kz750 twin
77 yz125
91 cr250
99 dr650
ex's:
78 kz400 b1
89 yz80
99 klx300
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- bountyhunter
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www.armbell.com/kz400/index.php?sid=32e9...9c7d1ac&mforum=kz400
1979 KZ-750 Twin
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- bountyhunter
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It's my understanding the Kaw stock electronic ignition is not CDI (capacitive discharge ignition) it is simply firing some kind of solid state device like a transistor in place of the points.gumby prichard wrote: also say i was able to get my hands on a 440 ignition or an 82-83 750 twin ignition, are these plug and play? and im guessing i would have to purchase the igniter(cdi) box as well?
The Dyna may be CDI, I am not sure about that design.
IMHO, the Kawi ignition is simpler and more reliable based on all the posts I read about blown up Dynas.
1979 KZ-750 Twin
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- Old Man Rock
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Have had no issues with my Dyna ignition/coils...
1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
MIKUNI, RS-34'S...
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter
Phoenix, Az
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- gumby prichard
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please continue with suggestions and EVERYTHING i will need for both systems to be replacing my stock points.
thanks
good day
78 kz750 twin
77 yz125
91 cr250
99 dr650
ex's:
78 kz400 b1
89 yz80
99 klx300
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- loudhvx
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The Dyna S uses super-long, fixed dwell angle, which can really use up electrical power at lower RPMs. It requires 3 ohm or higher coils (one coil for the 750 twin). 4 ohm points coils will work fine as long as they are in good shape. (Thirty year old coils may need to be replaced.) If the charging system is strong, then it's not much of an issue. However, it does heat the coil more than a stock electronic ignition would. Also, if you accidently leave the ignition on, the coil is getting full-current the entire time.
The Kaw electronic ignition uses a shorter, variable dwell angle. This is a little more efficient since it doesn't waste as much power at idle and lower RPMs. It also uses almost no power if you leave the ignition on with the bike not running. That's always a plus. It requires a separate igniter box, but that keeps the electronics away from the heat and vibration of the motor. I believe it is more reliable than the Dyna S because of that. Factory electronic ignitions have lasted decades. The factory electronic ignition uses 2.3 ohm coils. Dyna makes a 2.2 ohm coil which is a very close match. They will also work with 3 ohm coils, but you may run into issues at high RPMs if you open the plug gap really far or boost the motor's compression a lot.
Neither ignition is CDI. They are transistorized Kettering (fly-back) ignitions.
I believe the 440 electronic ignition can work on the 750 pretty easily. But you will need to get the details from some of the guys on the twins website. You can build a replacement igniter for the factory ignition for very little money. Details here (scroll to bottom):
home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/Ignition/GPZgmHEImod.html
Both will use the mechanical advance unit. (You can't use one from an inline 4 since it turns the opposite direction.) You will have to find out if a 440 advancer has the same advance as a 750 unit in order to swap the whole thing. You might be able to just swap the rotor portion.
The Dyna S uses a proprietary rotor with a built in magnet. The factory uses a rotor with an iron pointer.
For the Dyna S, you will need a Dyna S from an inline 4 KZ (but I'm not sure which size. There are two. One for 900/1000/1100 and one for 550/650/750-4.), a Dyna S magnet rotor, and a coil as mentioned above.
For the factory ignition, you will need a pickup and plate from a 440, which I think is a bolt on swap, and a rotor (and possibly an advancer, or maybe use the existing one), and an igniter box, along with a coil, as mentioned above.
1981 KZ550 D1 gpz.
Kz550 valve train warning.
Other links.
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- gumby prichard
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i just think the dyna s sounds a lot easier. so i may go with that for now and switch in the future.
thanks a lot loudhvx!
78 kz750 twin
77 yz125
91 cr250
99 dr650
ex's:
78 kz400 b1
89 yz80
99 klx300
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- gumby prichard
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78 kz750 twin
77 yz125
91 cr250
99 dr650
ex's:
78 kz400 b1
89 yz80
99 klx300
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- loudhvx
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gumby prichard wrote: also for future refence i have looked into it prior to this and everything i found sttd i need half of the dyna s 650 module, not the z1/kz1000 dyna s system.
That's what I remember as well. I just wasn't sure of my memory. That means you can also use 1/2 of a Dyna S for KZ550, and KZ750-4cyl as well, since they all use the same Dyna S system.
And yes, the plate is the big round plate you turn to adjust the timing. The advancer is the mechanism with the springs and counter weights. The rotor is the small part on the advancer mechanism that actually moves when the weights fly outward. The rotor basically just lifts off when the weights are in a particualr position. It's easy to put the rotor on backward since it can usually go on both ways, so you will have to pay attention to where the rotor is pointing, or where the little magnet is on the Dyna S rotor.
The only thing I can't recall is the fitmanet of the rotor onto the 750 twin advancer mechanism. It thought the diameters were different or something. But it's all very sketchy in my memory. So if someone else on the twins site said it works I'd go with that.
1981 KZ550 D1 gpz.
Kz550 valve train warning.
Other links.
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- Patton
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- gumby prichard
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78 kz750 twin
77 yz125
91 cr250
99 dr650
ex's:
78 kz400 b1
89 yz80
99 klx300
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- TexasKZ
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1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
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