WG coil wiring mod blowing out regulators?

'79 KZ650
WG coil wiring mod
New Dyna Green coils
New Dyna S ignition

I've been fighting electrical problems on the bike forever. Have been unable to get the bike to charge at more than 12.4 volts at idle, and 13.5 at 4000 rpm. The Clymer manual calls for 13.5 volts at idle, 14.5 at 4000 rpm.

More problematic is it's blown out three regulators. Clymer's testing procedure has two parts. First, you set the ohm meter at R x 1, attach the (-) lead to the black wire, and the (+) lead to the each of the yellow wires, one at a time. The value should be less than 20 ohms. Neither of the regulators I have registered anything at all. Did the test with two ohm meters, same results.

Second, you set the ohm meter to R x K, attach the (+) lead to the black wire, and the (-) lead to each of the yellow wires, one at a time. The value should be greater than 100. Both of the regulators I have registered between 199 and 230 ohms on each of the yellow leads.

When I went to look at the bike before buying it a little over a year ago, the owner jumped it off from a running truck. This blew out every light bulb on the bike, and regulator #1 (also, apparently, the stator).

We got regulator #2 from a local motorcycle salvage yard. It tested good prior to installation. It was good for about 500 miles.

When it blew out, we took regulator #3 off of JCCWall's parts bike. We did not test it before putting it on the bike. There was no improvement, so we tested both regulators and got the results described above.

The stator and the magnet have been replaced. The stator tests at under 3 ohms resistance (what Clymer calls for). The output from the stator is 76-77 VAC; Clymer calls for 75.

I've been reluctant to put 130.00 worth of new regulator on the bike until I know what's been wiping the others out. Brought in a mechanic who has a lot of motorcycle electrical experience. He initially suspected a grounding problem, but he found the ground values on the bike all to be good, so he said the problem is not there. He recommended running a ground from the coils directly to the engine, just to be sure.

When we described the WG coil wiring mod to him, and showed him the schematic, he said he felt there should be a diode inline, and the lack of it could be causing the problem.

I'm probably going to describe this wrong, but I understand his thinking to be the coils generate a magnetic/electrical field when they are energized. When the key is switched off, the field collapses and a voltage spike can go to the charging system, toasting the regulator.

Now, tons of people on here have done this mod, apparently with no problem. I'm confident we have it wired correctly. The relay we used for the WG coil wiring mod is a JD154A. Is this perhaps the wrong relay?

What else could this be?

Have you gone to the electrosport website? They have a troubleshooting diagram or tree to follow.

www.electrosport.com this will take you through the stator and matbe the regulator checks to perform.

I understand your frustration,but I see a few problems here.
When the power to the circuitry is cut, yes,an emf would be induced but in the secondary winding,whose output is to the spark plug then to ground.Any collapsing field in the primary winding would be of an order of magnitude directly proportional to the battery voltage. I.e. not enough to cause a problem as described. I don't know, but I would expect/hope there to be protection diodes in place on the input to the regulator. I would also regard the likelyhood of the mod being the source of the problem as remote because the purpose of the mod is to ensure max battery voltage to the coils in preference to the aging and resistance accumulating nature of the stock wiring, and thus a reduced voltage.
I've seen people report as low as 9volts prior to the mod, and virtually battery voltage with the mod,which is what it should ideally be. [by this logic, a brand new bike would behave in this way. I.e. blow the shit out of the reg straight away]. It doesn't.
Additionally, simply adding grounds everywhere can cause additional problems if there are already resistances in place as a result of the aging/resistance accumulating nature of ol ma kawa's stock wiring.
Existing wiring with a measurable resistance will have a voltage proportional to that resistance across it.If that scenario occours between grounds, then you could have some peculiar effects appearing.
Additionally, a silicon diode won't take kindly to large voltages being rammed up it, not to mention the inevitable voltage drop across it.
Sorry to dissapoint but I doubt the mod is the problem here, as you said, tons of people have already done it with no problems,however, that said, you could remove the mod and see what happens...

MFolks wrote:

Have you gone to the electrosport website? They have a troubleshooting diagram or tree to follow.

www.electrosport.com this will take you through the stator and matbe the regulator checks to perform.

I can't get the jump page for that to open.

We have, however, performed every test the Clymer manual dictates, numerous times.

We are getting 76-77 VAC output from the stator; it has less than 3 ohms resistance. That is dead on the specs outlined in the Clymer manual. I believe that rules out a stator problem

Chalk up the first regulator to the truck/jump. It ate another one, though, within 500 miles, and another virtually immediately, all it did was idle in the shop.

To me, the odds of the first regulator dying, the second one, which, while used, tested good per Clymer specs, lasting less than 500 miles, then the third blowing out immediately being simply three age-failed regulators are ridiculously long. Logic says something between the stator output and the regulator input is killing them. I just ordered an Electro Sport ESR600 for 118.56 (including shipping). Before I put that regulator on the bike, I must find out what has killed the other three, I just can't afford to throw that kind of money around (although, the bike has been nicknamed "hundo", because every time I start it up, it costs me a hundred bucks).

seanof30306 wrote:

...recommended running a ground from the coils directly to the engine, just to be sure...WG coil wiring mod...coils generate a magnetic/electrical field when they are energized. When the key is switched off, the field collapses and a voltage spike can go to the charging system, toasting the regulator...What else could this be?

Am thinking coil need not be grounded (would function just well hanging from a tie wrap); as already suggested, WG coil mod isn't an issue; and many bikes' coils give one last hit when the key is switched off whereby "voltage spike" loops through secondary winding as usual.

My Simple Simon understanding is the alternator (dynamo, generator) produces A/C, which the rectifier converts to D/C, and the regulator senses system voltage to govern output of the alternator.

Am not farmilar with the Electro Sport ESR600 regulator, but am wondering if a new combo unit from Z1E has also been considered.

Z1E combo unit

Good Luck!

I've got nothing to offer yet But I've got to say
"hundo", because every time I start it up, it costs me a hundred bucks)"

Is way rich!

KZCSI

Patton wrote:Am not farmilar with the Electro Sport ESR600 regulator, but am wondering if a new combo unit from Z1E has also been considered.

Z1E combo unit

Good Luck! [/quote]

Crap. Knew I shoulda called them first, that's 24 bucks cheaper than the one I ordered. I'm gonna see if I can cancel the order. With overnight shipping, though, that one should come in right at ....

100 bucks!

sigh

KZCSI wrote:

I've got nothing to offer yet But I've got to say
"hundo", because every time I start it up, it costs me a hundred bucks)"

Is way rich!

KZCSI

Oh, it was hysterical ...........

about 3000 bucks ago.

Now, not so much

; )

SPARKY47 wrote:

that said, you could remove the mod and see what happens...

We tried un-WGing it once. Runs like crap. The only way to tell of any effect on the charging system, though, would be to put a good regulator on it and see if it eats it. Th

You know,all this talk about high voltage spikes rang a bell,(it just took a while )and reminded me of a rather crazy circuit I built years ago.
If you take an inductor and switch the power on/off at a certain rate(say 5hz for example), the output voltage is proportional to the speed that the switch opened,I think its Vout=L dv/dt. Anyway, I knocked one up using a choke out of a flourescent fitting with a transistorised switching system.The sparks were VERY impressive:woohoo: and I seem to remember that you could achieve really silly voltages only limited by the insulation on the windings and the rest of the circuitry.
Enough babbling, it's possible you have an intermittent break in a conductor which is doing just that.Because you already have an inductor in circuit, its called an ignition coil.And your regulator certainly wouldn't appreciate voltages of that magnitude.
You can quite easily realise voltages in the millions by fuckin about with circuits like that.
Just a thought.
This would give an idea: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_converter

SPARKY47 wrote:

it's possible you have an intermittent break in a conductor which is doing just that.Because you already have an inductor in circuit, its called an ignition coil.And your regulator certainly wouldn't appreciate voltages of that magnitude.
You can quite easily realise voltages in the millions by fuckin about with circuits like that.
Just a thought.

Ok, dude, that is so far over my head I can't see it.

: )

How would you recommend I track down that intermittent break in a conductor? (I assume "conductor" means wire?)

And what circuits are you suggesting I don't mess with? The grounding of the coils, or putting the diode in the WG coild mod?

My bike's been down for over 4 months with this. All I want to do is ride it, and I'm about at the point where I'm willing to try anything. I've never experienced anything like this before. I just can't understand how this can be so complicated.

People often fit the WGmod to recover a couple of volts, by putting a diode inline,you will drop about 0.7volts across it,so you'll lose that voltage.Counterproductive.
The mod itself is worth having, leave it in.
Have you got points or electronic ignition?
The classic way of tracing broken/suspect wireing is to use it to feed a voltage to say a bulb,(I use needles to connect inside the insulation) and then waggle it around all ways(up,down,left,right)if theres a problem with that wire the bulb will flicker and/or go out.
EDIT:Sorry, I see you have a dyna
quote Logic says something between the stator output and the regulator input is killing them.unquote.
Thats a good place to start, but check your connections as well.Your stator will have either 2 or 3 wires coming out of it.
Hey, I'm a moderator again:woohoo: