WG coil wiring mod blowing out regulators?

I am still trying to figure out why you shut it off every time you stop? sounds like a lot of unnecessary wear and tear on the start/charging system to me.i also wonder if it isnt part of the problem.

76 LTD wrote:

I am still trying to figure out why you shut it off every time you stop? sounds like a lot of unnecessary wear and tear on the start/charging system to me.i also wonder if it isnt part of the problem.

It has the charging problems whether I shut it off when I stop, or not. The shutting off when stopped simply excaberates the problem.

And I do it because I bought the bike to hypermile. Even though it's still jetted way rich, I get 36 mpg when I ride it "normally", and 43 mpg when I hypermile it. That number will improve when I get past these electrical problems and can focus on getting the jetting right.

During process of diagnosing engine performance, it's important to remember that with a good fully charged battery, the bike should perform just fine without any parts of the charging system whatever. Racers do this all the time (i.e., run with no alternator, no rectifier, and no regulator in a so-called a "total loss" system to save weight, avoid some reciprocating parts, etc.)

The purpose of the charging components (alternator, rectifier, and regulator) is only to maintain the battery. The ignition components depend on a good fully charged battery (and couldn't care less about what's keeping the battery charged).

Stated another way, the charging function happens before the battery, and the ignition function comes after the battery.

My understanding is the coil mod simply provides a clean new more direct connection from the positive battery terminal to the coil primary winding, so as to finesse any undesirable drop in voltage resulting from old wiring and connectors. But the coil mod wiring relates to the ignition -- after the battery -- and doesn't impact or involve the charging components (alternator, rectifier and regulator).

Logically, the coil mod here is improving the ignition function, whereby the engine should perform just fine with a good fully charged battery, regardless of any charging component's condition or existence.

Hope the combo unit from Z1E resolves the charging issues, (as it did for my bike).

Good Luck!

I agree, and that's probably the simplest explanation of the charging/ignition processes possible.

I only started this thread because that's what the guy we brought in who specializes in motorcycle electrical systems suggested, and I wa s going to check it out with people who knew a lot more about it than I do before I let him do anything.

My bike runs better with the WG wiring mod than it does without it; I'm glad I did it. All I care about is getting this problem resolved so I can ride my bike. I don't care what the solution is, as long as i can find a solution.

I'm going to lay out the whole thing in black and white, so try and read logically and not emotionally.

When I went to look at the bike before buying it a little over a year ago, the owner jumped it off from a running truck. This blew out every light bulb on the bike, and regulator #1 (also, apparently, the stator).

The expected result of jumping a KZ from a running car/truck is a blown reg/rec. You can research this by searching KZR and noting all the people that have done it.

We got regulator #2 from a local motorcycle salvage yard. It tested good prior to installation. It was good for about 500 miles.

Impossible to determine what caused this failure, maybe age, maybe something else, no way to tell

When it blew out, we took regulator #3 off of JCCWall's parts bike. We did not test it before putting it on the bike. There was no improvement, so we tested both regulators and got the results described above.

And here's the point where you keep getting hung up emotionally, you have made the "assumption" that the reg/rec was good at the time you installed it, and at the time that you removed it from the parts bike.

And when I brought this to your attention you claimed I was calling you a liar.

That parts bike did, however, start right up on the electric starter when we went to look at it, start right up on the electric starter when we went to pick it up, and start right up on the electric starter in the shop every time we tried it over the next several weeks, lending credence to the owner's claim that he'd started the bike up and let it run for a few minutes a couple of times a week since he'd wrecked it, and also lending credence to the assumption that the charging system must be working properly if that was keeping the battery charged up, when 30 seconds at a traffic light with the headlight energized on my daily-ridden bike was enough to run my brand new battery down.

In your own words even!

lending credence to the assumption that the charging system must be working properly

So, the fact is, you do not "know" that the reg/rec you removed from the parts bike was good, you assumed that it was good based upon anecdotal evidence that really doesn't say anything about the charging system.

when 30 seconds at a traffic light with the headlight energized on my daily-ridden bike was enough to run my brand new battery down.

See anything wrong with the above quote?

30 seconds at a stoplight with the headlight on and the engine not running is "not" enough to run down a good battery. By your own words, you are a "hypermiler", you keep the rpms low and shut off the bike whenever possible. That will cause your battery to discharge, a KZ doesn't charge the battery till it gets to at least 3000 rpm, and you never get there.

I understand your desire to be a hypermiler, but you picked the wrong bike to do it, and I'm not really sure there is a good bike to rider at 2k rpm or so, due to the charging issues.

Back to my point

You assumed that the parts bike reg/rec worked because it didn't show the same symptoms as your bike. But it wasn't operated in the same manner (close though).

That parts bike did, however, start right up on the electric starter when we went to look at it, start right up on the electric starter when we went to pick it up, and start right up on the electric starter in the shop every time we tried it over the next several weeks, lending credence to the owner's claim that he'd started the bike up and let it run for a few minutes a couple of times a week since he'd wrecked it, and also lending credence to the assumption that the charging system must be working properly

As a general rule of thumb, it takes 30 minutes charging to replace the power used in 1 minute of cranking.

KZ charging systems are marginal at best, 240-280 watt output, and by the time you subtract the coils/lights/etc, there's not much left to charge the battery.

With no charging system at all, and a fully charged good battery, you should be able to start the bike 30-40 times, especially if the battery is allowed time to recover between starts.

I rode my 750 twin for a month with a disabled charging system, but I kickstarted it, and the lights come on with the ignition, no off switch.


My point is, even your anecdotal evidence does not support your assumption that the reg/rec off the parts bike was good at the time you removed it.


So:

1st coil failed for known reason having nothing to do with the bike.

2nd coil failed for unknown reason.

3rd coil is total unknown, it's unknown when it "actually" failed, may have failed sometime in the distant past, may have failed last time the parts bike was started, may have failed immediately upon installation. There's simply no way of knowing when it failed, so logically, you can not assume that it failed immediately upon installation on your bike.

So, you have one reg/rec (the 2nd one) that failed for an unknown reason, and one reg/rec (the first one) that failed for a known reason having nothing to do with the bike.

It appears that logically speaking, your fear that there is something wrong with the bike that is causing it to destroy reg/recs is based on the failure of "one" reg/rec, and a used one at that.


Hopefully you have been able to read this far without being sidetracked into some sort of emotional meltdown, and hopefully you can stay in an objective mode long enough to finish.


I've been a professional mechanic for a lot of years, and I've dealt with a lot of people, and the ones I hate dealing with the most are the ones that are fearful of being ripped off.
They are the ones that have to know every detail, question everything, and are not technologically aware, so are incapable of understanding the explanation. They are certainly capable of getting hateful though.

They are the way they are, and I just try and avoid dealing with them, it's a no win situation for the mechanic.

Obviously you have someone working on your bike, and you should trust him/her to do their job, and quit looking over their shoulder and trying to second guess them. But if you're the kind of person I described above, then my advice is wasted as you're not going to listen to anything other than what you want to hear.



Oh yeah, I'd really like to say that there's nothing wrong with the charging system on your bike that won't be fixed upon installation of a good reg/rec (and that's probably the case), but I don't have enough evidence to make that conclusion, just like there's not enough evidence to conclude there "is" something wrong with your bike.

I suppose you fail to see the humor

:blink: ...My brain is sizzzzzzling...

steell wrote:

I'm going to do exactly as you request, and not post in this thread again

942 words (excluding quotes of my words, smiley faces, etc.

I understand an OCD-driven compulsion to have the last word, but 942 of them?

PS: If you avoid dealing with people like me, then why would you initiate 942 words of further contact with me after I've apparently convinced you beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am the exact type of person you hate dealing with so much?

Could it be an absolute insistence on having the last word? Could it be a continuation of your previous argument, thinly disguised as "help"? I asked you to go away, and you insisted you were, yet this 942 word tome is your third post here since you said you were done with me.

My old uncle Elmo used to say: "If it liiks like dogsh*t, if it smells like dogsh*t, if it squishes when you step on it like dogsh*t .... then it's probably dogsh*t".

You just can't stop yourself from coming back.

The Electrex products are the top of the line. Ask nearly any owner of the Suzuki GS line of bikes and they'll tell you. Their fault-finding guide should be a part of every riders tool box - if you can't get it LMK and I'll email you the PDF.

I really don't think the problem is with the WG mod, although there is a correction to the wiring in his forum. It involves simply switching two of the contacts so the terminal isn't always hot. Check out the post in the electrical section.

you are looking for a problem that does not exist, bite the bullet buy a new reg/rectifier, check all your grounds and then be on your way.

ok update, not really pertaining to charging system, at least i dont think it does but may indirectly. have identified the source of the problem for the need for the wg coil mod. kill switch on right handle 20 to 30 ohms thru the switch alone. which leaves about 10.4 at the connector going to the coils. have not checked it while running. deemed it pointless to continue anyways. 2 choices, replace switch and remove wg coil mod, or just live with it till gets worse, (my choice).
my question, does anyone see in any way this possibly could affect charging system, i personally dont see how it can, but as i have said, my years of experience are in automotive/hvy equipment.
thanks for all your "discussions" very informative.
jim

did you measure these resistances,I ask because you wrote 20 to 30 thru the switch alone.
I suspect you could have a point here,but I'd have to model it to find out.[resistor in series with inductor].I'm wiring mine now so I'll see what comes up.
Interesting post.

sorry not more clear on that. the resistance was a little different every time i turn switch off then back on, lowest was 19 ohms highest was 33 ohms.