WG coil wiring mod blowing out regulators?

wiredgeorge wrote:

Paul, You are interrupting a perfectly good whining session with this technical stuff! FWIW: I have a 79 KZ1000E1 ST as well and installed a KuryAkyn voltage gauge. You can see this gauge on the US eBay; plug in auction # 350095734514 - This gauge gives you an easy to read indication of how the charging system is working. FWIW: I don't have problems with the battery discharging when riding in town or in stop and go traffic. I think it is a good idea to monitor the DC voltage output to check to see how the bike is charging. The battery charges when the positive voltage is a bit greater than 12 volts and charges best at about 13.5 to 14.5 volts. With fuel prices what they are, it is cheaper to have a good performing charging system than sit at traffic lights revving the engine. You will also not need to keep the bike on a trickle charger if your charging system is up to snuff. The ST had a more effective stator than earlier KZ models so I would start by checking AC voltage using a meter on each of the three wires... check between each pair of wires and you should get 40 VAC at idle and 60-70 at 4K rpm.

Thanks for this WG. First I want to assure everyone that I am not hijacking this thread :huh:. I am not looking for answers since I don't think I have a problem :laugh:. Maybe this info will be useful to Seanof30306 for comparison if he wants to go down this route.

When I first got the bike and the battery ran down after three days of short local trips, I checked the alternator voltage output and (from memory) got 32Vac at idle and in the low 60s at 4k rpm. I figured this was probably OK, and since the regulator was only outputting 12.5V at idle and 12.8V at 4k rpm I put in a brand new combined rectifier/regulator unit. Checked the output and got 12.7V at idle and 14.5V at 4k rpm (once it had been revving at 4k for a few seconds -- the voltage crept up very slowly as the revs increased). Thought my problems were over. Checked the rec/reg output again after a week and it was 12.5V at idle and only 13.5V at 4k. So a bit borderline. I don't know why this should be but I can live with it. I suspect it has something to do with having to start it with the headlamp on. I put it on trickle charge at night for peace of mind.

The thoughts behind my earlier suggestions are as follows:

1. Leave the engine running at stop lights and intersections, and keep the revs up a little over idle when stopped because this is better for the bike. Hang the expense of the extra petrol! We pay the equivalent of $9 per gallon here in the UK . Do what is best for the bike. It is cheaper in the long run. If used for short journeys, keeping the engine running will allow it to warm up more completely. Keep the revs up a little for the oil pump to give a good supply of oil to the top end, and it may provide just a little extra charge to the battery than when idling at 1000 rpm.

2. Keep to between 3000 to 4000 revs when riding slowly. This will provide a good charge for the battery and you will get good response from the engine if you need to accelerate (my other bike is a Z650 so I know what its engine characteristics are like).

3. Buy a trickle charger and plug it in every night. This, combined with the other suggestions will hopefully allow the bike to be used on a daily basis between problem solving sessions .

I am sorry to interrupt the whining session. Please ignore all this and carry on with the entertainment if you prefer :dry:.

Paul

Hi gang, God this seems to be quite an issue for these old bikes. anyway this is almost the exact opposite problem that I had not charging. I went through everything possible and could not figure it out, until I found a fellow expert in electrical loudgpz. If you ask me the first thing I would do is take the dyna S off and put points back on. the dyna s killed my charging system. the dyna coils are fine. the dyna uses so much more juice the that the charging system on my 78 kz650 couldn't handle it no matter what I did. Sounds like too similar problems. Bob

Hi Sparky,

A Troll lives under a bridge.... Sorry! An internet troll is someone who likes to stir the pot, get a bunch of folks arguing and sit back and enjoy the mayhem.

I have no Idea that Sean is trolling. For one thing he's been involved in this issue enough that I'm sure he has a real problem. His thread title is somewhat provocative in that it seems to link the coil relay mod with causing his problems. I don't believe that he's following that lead any longer.

I for one do not subscribe to the coil mod theory. I've always been able to clean up my connections to get something very close to battery voltage to my coils. However if you've got a lot of voltage drop and can't seem to cure it, perhaps there's a relay in your future. Each case is different.

I don't believe that we've seen any trolling in this thread.

KZCSI

wiredgeorge wrote:

check between each pair of wires and you should get 40 VAC at idle and 60-70 at 4K rpm.

WG:

Stator output is 26-27 VAC @ idle, 75-76 VAC @ 4000 rpm.

Clymer calls for "about 75 VAC" at 4000 pm, stating less than that means the stator is defective. It does not lis a value for VAC @ idle.

KZSCI,Thanks for the explanation,I knew it was something to do with pixiesB)
I do agree with your sentiments concerning the mod,but then I'm creating a loom from scratch so I won't need one. I bought a set of (x11) 5 metre lenghts of cable with the same colours as my origional loom:woohoo:
The reason I suggested to seanof30306 that he should retain the mod is because he'd replied to my suggestion that he try the bike without it with the statement that he'd done it and it ran like crap. This confirmed my suspicion that the wiring itself might be the root cause of the problem.
Anyway, 3.26am here, Insomnia rules.
Best Regards from England:)

Please, prove me wrong.

Nah, you've been wrong about everything else, so I figured you deserve to be right once at least

This thread's going nowhere anyway, since "None are so blind as he who will not see".

This ought to be good for another amusing 500 word tirade

No help here, but just thought I'd throw out the fact that there is no reason in the world a Dyna system should not work just fine in a 650. I've got Dyna III on my original KZ650 for over 150,000 miles with zero problems, still running original stator and reg/rect as well as original coils, and have Dyna-S in my everyday rider KZ650 with 40,000 on the road with it, mostly city stop/go. No problems at all, so if charging is not working, I'd think elsewhere.

steell wrote:

Please, prove me wrong.

Nah, you've been wrong about everything else, so I figured you deserve to be right once at least

This thread's going nowhere anyway, since "None are so blind as he who will not see".

This ought to be good for another amusing 500 word tirade

Nah, I knew you couldn't stand to go away without trying to get the last word.

seanof30306 wrote:

Nah, I knew you couldn't stand to go away without trying to get the last word.

You sure are a party pooper, I really expected more from you than that

That last tirade made me chuckle, and I needed a chuckle after spending all day working on stuff that runs on tracks instead of wheels.

I've already told you exactly what the problem is, but you have your mind locked to one explanation and you can't see any alternatives.

The solution is to back away from the problem and start over, pretend you know nothing about the problem and look at everything objectively.

And never, never, never, assume anything, assumptions will come back and bite you in the butt.

So, in addition to telling you what the problem is, I've also told you how to see it yourself.


And I don't need the "last word", a lot of the members here have met me personally, and a lot more (most) know me from this board and others, so I doubt your words are going to influence anyone's opinion of me.

Take the advice as offered, or leave it and throw another tantrum, I really don't care either way, I was just bored and decided to see if you were willing to take an objective look at the problem.

Oh yeah, as a former Moderator here (and no, it has nothing to do with the word Moderator under/over anyone's avatar),I can truthfully say you have a lot to learn when it comes to flaming someone, you can't even hold a candle to some of the characters I've had to deal with. And if they couldn't get me riled, you don't have a ghost of a chance

I did enjoy reading your tirade though, although TWT was 100 times better at it

The point you miss is you're the one continuing the drama, not me. All I care about is figuring out what's wrong with my bike. Verbally jousting with someone crouched behind their computer screen hundreds of miles away is the least interesting thing in the world to me. I've already asked you to move on and wished you well several times. You're the one who keeps coming back.

This is now your second post after you said you weren't posting any more. Just as I said you would.

steell wrote:

I'm going to do exactly as you request, and not post in this thread again

Your words, not mine.

Now do as you said and move on.

MFolks wrote:

Have you gone to the electrosport website? They have a troubleshooting diagram or tree to follow.

www.electrosport.com this will take you through the stator and matbe the regulator checks to perform.

Finally got that chart to open, and have printed it out. Will begin going through it tomorrow. Since the current regulator is bad, that may limit the results. I cancelled the ElectroSport regulator and ordered the one from Z1 Enterprises.com. It should probably be here Monday or Tuesday.

* Thoroughly cleaned the ground connection between the negative battery terminal and the engine.

* With a 10mm wire, created a second ground between the negative battery terminal and the frame.

* With a 10mm wire, created a ground between the engine and the frame

* Will continue going through and thoroughly cleaning all connectors

* will measure voltage at the coils both with, and without the WG wiring mod. We're thinking the fact that the bike runs like crap without the mod indicates a wiring problem, probably unrelated to the charging issues. However, we're thinking a problem in one area of the harness could easily be replicated in another, too.

wiredgeorge wrote:

I have a 79 KZ1000E1 ST as well and installed a KuryAkyn voltage gauge. You can see this gauge on the US eBay; plug in auction # 350095734514 - This gauge gives you an easy to read indication of how the charging system is working.

I've been wondering about the gauge; I ran across it about 6 months ago here:

www.bikerhiway.com/led-motorcycle-batter...81b73436376c7f642ca4

The ebay dude's price is lower shipped than theirs is unshipped, though. I ordered one.

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...em&item=140266578565

Asibe from being helpful, I think it'll look pretty cool, too.