Switched to pods

ED, by stock do you mean totally stock as in ignition and cam timing and stock exhaust?
If so I will agree with you. But if any changes are made I will have to disagree. :evil: :whistle: :woohoo:

If anyone has a published article that shows pods to improve performance on a stock street engine please post it.
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I guess that is the point - pods usually go with a 4-1 , which by definition will change the power curve.

On a slide carb motor tuning the carbs isn't that difficult, with some perseverance and a bit of experience...or you get lucky within 2-3 attempts. - assuming that goofy airbox is in the bin already :laugh:

I accept fuel mpg, air filtration quality/engine wear rates and quietness plus bottom end grunt are all there with the airbox, but for me i
like the sound and look of pods. People have told me for the last quarter of a century how I'll never get a a bike to run right on those pods, maybe but it works for me.

OP fumes venting out of the motor, if excess crankcase compression - that would usually be vented back into the airbox is what you are seeing. Two issues: whether you have excesss blowback from worn rings etc....needs more diagnostics like a compression check to pinpoint. secondly, tuning the carbs - as a guess up one or two on the main jet plus maybe lift the needle.

This thread does seem like a re-run, but with new people coming into the hobby I guess that's to be expected.

I made the same mistake on my Kawi's before - trying out pod filters. I could never get them to run as well as using the airbox, and rubber boots.

Not that you can't run them, and if you have them tuned right, you can pull about the same ultimate HP out of them as the airbox.

The problem I had was that I wasn't Eddie Lawson, or Wayne Rainey, who had their bikes at full throttle most of the time, running velocity stacks, I expected my bikes to carburete from idle to redline without a stutter, and function in any temperature from 40 degrees to 100 degrees.

I did read a period article once where a magazine wanted to make their 1980 KZ550 perform like a GPz550, and after putting on a header, pods, and jet kit, they promptly lost HP on the dyno. It wasn't until they put in 2nd oversize factory pistons and cams that it responded.

So heck, if you like the looks of pods, or you simply didn't get an airbox with your bike, there are guys here who can tell you how to tune them, I even remember tweaking the #2 & #3 Carbs on the inside to compensate for less and hotter air.

That being said - I'll never run pods again.

3 generations of Kawasaki wrenchers here and I can say I love pods. We have acquired at least 7 bikes with pods that the owners have sold us for cheap after they get frustrated trying to tune their podded bikes or discovered the side wind problem or had them disintegrate due to wet weather. The big problem is these mechs cut off the airbox after not wanting to go through the removal process and their path back to airbox heaven was effectively cut off. So we tried to buy every solid box we could find. So yes I do love pods we got some nice bikes pretty cheap because of them. To be fair I do know of two guys riding pods on their Kaws who profess to love them. I have only rode one of those bikes and can say I have a nice box waiting for it and I believe it will come to the boxside. :evil: :whistle:

Being published is unfortunately not a good test for validity. How many articles have I seen with completely wrong information?

Whether or not performance is improved is not really a valid question since it is too vague. If the question is: do some aspects of the performance get improved, the answer is yes. What someone wants in a drag race is not the same thing someone wants in a road race. A road racer would likely give up some low-rpm torque to get some high rpm horsepower. A drag racer may want the opposite.

The simple facts are:
The performance may or not be improved. Some people don't care.
The carbs will be much easier to install with pods.
For some, rain will be a headache with pods.
There are many other minor up and downsides.
The real issue is jetting. That is the major downside.
It takes a lot of trial and error to get it right.
People grossly underestimate the amount of work it takes.

Now, if someone has already done the work and is willing to share info, then jetting problem may be a non-issue.

I'm not a proponent or opponent of pods, I use both pods and airboxes on different bikes.

650ed wrote:

baldy110 wrote: I will disagree with you there Ed, always pointing out the negative aspects is not helpful.

Contrary to your assertion, I don't only point out negatives; I have tried to be helpful in other ways as well. I may be a bit candid from time to time as I don't see much need to treat folks any differently than I would expect to be treated; we're all adults on this site. However, contrary to your opinion I believe I have been helpful to folks on this site, and I think his is evident by the number of times folks have taken the trouble to click on my "Thanks" button. Of course, I might have just as many folks click on my FU button if there was one. :laugh: Ed

While people have the right to do what they like to their bikes, I don't believe there is anything wrong with someone pointing out the problems that Pods can cause. It seems many new owners see it as the #1 essential first modification, thinking they are unleashing HP by the bucket load, which is not only untrue, but it is certainly not a modification, IMO, that is for a relative novice, who then won't be able to get it to run right . We can debate the the pros and cons indefinitely, but reality is for most people the stock airbox is the best option, which explains the prices they now command on eBay. Again I do not see it being negative to point out the potential pitfalls of any modifications people may be contemplating, as long as it is worded in a respectful manner not along the lines of "you stupid bleepety blanker" what the" bleep" are you thinking.

My #1 piece of advice to anyone would be make sure you hang on to your stock airbox, you may decide you need it after all, but if you don't they are worth to much money to end up in the garbage, like so many have.

The dog chewed on mine.
Steve

Did the OP ever come back?

Can you blame him if he don't. :blink:

It was fun to read those old articles Ed posted, but it reminded me of how antiquated the tuning methods used back then are today. With the right tuning tools, getting the correct jetting isn't nearly as difficult as it was back then.

One thing you never see asked when people make the switch to pods is "what should my air/fuel ratio be?". It's always "what jets should I try?". That's the first indicator that they're not using today's tuning methods to get it right. There is no reason to attempt tuning without a wideband O2 these days. They have become so cheap and are so effective. Nobody is tuning fuel injection without one. Why are people still trying to tune carbs without one?

I am a fan of stock airbox/exhaust setups, as well as intake/exhaust changes when a bit of forethought
is used by that bike's owner, rider, whoever it might be, as to the hit-n-miss process they are likely up
against...especially if it's their 1st time trying these mods on a stock or near stock streetbike. Tuning a
newly modified intake/exhaust system to run responsively from idle to redline is obviously an uphill
battle, though it is possible. I've seen it work over the years with varying success, whether it be my bikes or the bikes of riding buddies. One thing I've learned over the last 40+ years of riding 900's and 1000's is that there is NO surefire formula for carb configs and jet combos that will work for every bike...even identical bikes with identical set-ups. I do know the best chance of success with pod air filters is to keep them properly coated and clean....OH and out of the rain and off of dirt roads! 4-1 exhausts can differ as much as the people that use them in their overall designs (downtube lengths and how they're routed, collection throat size, megaphone shapes/lengths/diameters, and baffle options etc.)...and have many more variables than stock exhaust systems. The best success I've seen is with Kerker 4-1's and Denco (left side exit headers). I have no scientific proof but the pod/Denco combo tuning success we attributed to the narrower throat size (approx 1 1/2") and slightly smaller megaphone. And I had best success with the pod/Kerker combo when I installed a narrower insert into the throat of the front portion (I called it a choker, approximately 3 1/2" long and held in place by 3 small sheet metal screws) narrowing the throat by approximately 1/2" down to about 1 1/2". By doing that, I very quickly noticed a much noticeable improvement in low rpm acceloration and less hesitation when accelorating from a stop or low rpm in any gear. I tried both the narrow baffle and the 2" widemouth comp baffle in the same Kerker and detected a noticeably better performance with the narrower well packed baffle with my stock 903cc engines and always running Premium octane pump gas. I am no scientist but I would say that can be attributed to the increased head pressure(?), and a bit more restriction on the overall flow through the stock head and ports versus the more free-flowing more open exhaust and wider baffles. I also liked the Kerkers design in that all 4 downtubes are basically the same length, collecting under the middle of the engine. I have not seen an original Kerker from an Eddie Lawson replica, but I've been told they have a narrower throat size than standard Kerkers which was one of the direct contributors to his bikes performance success. Makes sense to me because it worked on 2 of my early 900's (a '75 Z1 and a '76 KZ900) BEFORE the E.L. replicas were even produced, and a '77 "heinz 57" KZ1000 farm bike I bought about 12 years ago from a farmer back in So. Dakota that hearded cattle with it lmao! It has a '75 series Z1 engine w/stock 28mm Mikunis, pods and a Mac 4-1. It took a bit of tinkering to get it right, but it ran damm good all the way out here to Cali and 5-6000 miles since.
No it may not work for everyone on every bike, but success CAN be achieved depending on how bad you want it to work. Worked for me. But for anyone thinking of a particular bike's overall value?...leave it stock!!! For the adventurous experimenter?...Go for it!---""just keep an open mind and be prepared for a potential battle getting it right."" ........................................................Mike

Vroom-vroom!!!

I bought my KZ1000 Denco pipes directly from Denco in the late 70's. It came with a small Venturi insert that is installed inside, right at the collector megaphone junction. Denco told me what jets to install in the 26mm carb's, where the needles should be, the ignition timing and when use the insert.
I've never removed it.
A really good set of headers.