Data Logging for tuning your KZ

Good idea. Thanks Steell.

steell wrote:

If you need to dampen the pulsations (even with all four tied together) a small fuel filter inline works well.

Why didn't I think of that? I've been trying to figure out what to use to dampen the Harbor Freight vac gauges I have for syncing my carbs...

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I don't think you really need the manifold vacuum sensor for a carb setup, unless you have CV's.

For CV's, what would actually be more telling would be a cv slide position sensor, but that's gonna be a pretty big undertaking.

The problem with putting in ports for measuring MAP, is that the ports can actually affect the MAP. There is a chance MAP will change when you remove the ports etc.

To minimize the chance of port-vs-no-port being different, you would install dampers (restrictors) as close to the intake tract as possible. The problem is, if you install a chamber to smooth out the pulses to be read by the MAP sensor, the dampers will slow down the vacuum reading to the point that the data will no longer be synced to the RPM and AFR data. In this condition, you could only get good data sync for slow RPM and throttle position changes. This will only give you AFR data for gradual changes and the results for that should always be on the lean side (12.5 to 14 ish).

What I found to be useful was watching how the AFR goes rich when accelerating hard. But with manual slide carbs, it's easy to keep tract of slide position while accelerating. The key is to try to get the slide open quickly without letting the AFR go too low (rich), like below 10.

I guess bottom line is that I would just try it with throttle and RPM first.

Oh, and to answer your question, as long as you restrict each of the 4 ports, each port will have the bare minimal effect on any other port. I like this idea, but would leave off any extra chamber.

Map is difficult to get a useful signal on with bikes because they have relatively long duration cams ond individual carbs or int he case of a FI bike throttle bodies.
With the FI set up on my z650 I tried running speed density (map and rpm) with small fish tank air control valves to damp out the pulses in the inlet and with all the but the map signal range is to narrow to get a decent map, bike was much easier to tune using Alpha-n (throttle position and rpm based) Although at some stage I am going to give the hybrid combination of the 2 (which is based on the way ferrari handle their tuning, ecu runs off of alpha-n at low rpm small throttle openings but switches tables to speed density at higher revs where the map signal is stable)
My tech edge wb logs but I have never used that side of it I log with a palm pda. Tuning is a lot easier

Thanks for all the input guys. Let me explain my manifold idea. All I was thinking of doing is tying all four vacuum ports together with a set of vacuum tees. Not really thinking of building a chamber per se. I agree that the vacuum signal may not be useable at or near idle, but might be useful to determine load under larger throttle openings.

I just got my $6 MAP sensor in the mail today, so I going to give it a try regardless. If the data returned is garbage, then I can just edit that out.

Give me some time, I need to get my body work done, and then I can re-assemble the bike. At that point I will start testing.

You can just compare throttle position to RPM to figure the load, (as long as you know what gear you are in, or as long as you stay in the same gear for those tests). But then you still need to know what the slides are doing. If you are beyond about 1/2 throttle, the slides will likely be full open, but the less than 1/2 throttle is where most of the interesting stuff happens.

loudhvx wrote:

You can just compare throttle position to RPM to figure the load, (as long as you know what gear you are in, or as long as you stay in the same gear for those tests). But then you still need to know what the slides are doing. If you are beyond about 1/2 throttle, the slides will likely be full open, but the less than 1/2 throttle is where most of the interesting stuff happens.

X2
i dont see what u will learn from tracking vacumm .
the slide position isrealy all u need.
and as loudhvx said, the bottom end is where u will find this the most use.
keep in mind that u only have 3 simple circuits to adjust.
Keep in mind that if u have a hard time finding a mounting solusion, it would work just fine, to mark the slide positions on the grip. not as much fun though , i know.

I'm not entirely sure what the vacuum will teach me, but I already have the sensor. That's the whole point of discovery, to discover. I already have the throttle positions marked on the grip, but I want them to be logged by the computer. The software will overlay all of the sensors on a graph, so everything is referenced in real time. That way, I don't have to remember what throttle opening I was using. It will be cool, I promise.

I gotta get the bodywork done, I'm itching to ride this thing, and show some test results. I'm off work for the week after Christmas. Hopefully I can make some progress.

testarossa wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what the vacuum will teach me, but I already have the sensor. That's the whole point of discovery, to discover. I already have the throttle positions marked on the grip, but I want them to be logged by the computer. The software will overlay all of the sensors on a graph, so everything is referenced in real time. That way, I don't have to remember what throttle opening I was using. It will be cool, I promise.

I gotta get the bodywork done, I'm itching to ride this thing, and show some test results. I'm off work for the week after Christmas. Hopefully I can make some progress.

Its allways fun to learn new stuff.
Good luck and Merry Christmas.
Mark.

Absolutely. More data is beter than less data.

Here is a tiny needle jet breather found at any air cylinder vendor... I think this one is SMC. It is like the fish tank air divertor idea but much more precise. They are both directly ahead of the butterfly's.

I have one per throttle body and also a tiny vent tube that can link up the bodies to each other or a set of sync gauges.