Need confirmation that timing is set wrong on my 1976 KZ900

The new one matches the ‘77-‘78 Kz1000, dimensionally the same. And as Swest says the idler gear can be serviced later on if necessary. 

Thank you SWest and Mikaw .I post some more picks to compare the top idler.The older type seems more robust and steady.I was planning to try  to fit the roller-sprocket from the new into the old bracket,but dont think that is nessesary and to much hassle.The new bracket is not oem it is branded EMGO  ,but the sprocket-roller may be oem .The 2 other sprocket roller that came in the kit is oem i think ithey are stamped  z1 koyo japan.

I’m in the process of the same endeavor. Here’s what the axle of the OEM top idler looks like. There is a sleeve that is gun drilled then drilled perpendicular. Then the axle is gun drilled and has a corresponding hole. The sleeve is tabbed and indexes into the bracket to fix it from spinning,  the axle is indexed with a flat on its outer shoulder to a tab on the bracket. This allows oil to seep into the axle and get into the needle bearings. This is far superior the the emgo or even the OEM Kz1000 it’s modeled after. My thinking was to gun drill a bolt to replace the axle. I just need ideas on how to fit the new bolt/axle so it will index on the hole drilled into the sleeve to retain the oiling technique. I’m also concerned the threads of the bolt/axle will either collapse or cut into the ID of the factory sleeve. 

 

I did it years ago with a m6 bolt. Saved a lot of money until Liska's came out. Still have it and will post a pic soon. 
Steve

Mikaw wrote:

I’m in the process of the same endeavor. Here’s what the axle of the OEM top idler looks like. There is a sleeve that is gun drilled then drilled perpendicular. Then the axle is gun drilled and has a corresponding hole. The sleeve is tabbed and indexes into the bracket to fix it from spinning,  the axle is indexed with a flat on its outer shoulder to a tab on the bracket. This allows oil to seep into the axle and get into the needle bearings. This is far superior the the emgo or even the OEM Kz1000 it’s modeled after. My thinking was to gun drill a bolt to replace the axle. I just need ideas on how to fit the new bolt/axle so it will index on the hole drilled into the sleeve to retain the oiling technique. I’m also concerned the threads of the bolt/axle will either collapse or cut into the ID of the factory sleeve. 


That is interesting i thaugt that the inner axle was welded /peened on one side. Why can you not just reuse the inner axle ? is it to wide ?

 

SWest wrote:

I did it years ago with a m6 bolt. Saved a lot of money until Liska's came out. Still have it and will post a pic soon. 
Steve

That vould be great with a pic  .I first was going to buy the liska parts ,but since i found the complete set from zpower i went that route
 

I drilled off the shoulder side making the original axle unusable. But now you got me thinking if you grind off the peened over side. Could you possibly drill and tape the inside of the original axle and install it back with a button head short screw head in with red Loctite. This would retain the indexed shoulder of the axle and allow its reuse. 

Mikaw wrote:

I’m in the process of the same endeavor. Here’s what the axle of the OEM top idler looks like. There is a sleeve that is gun drilled then drilled perpendicular. Then the axle is gun drilled and has a corresponding hole. The sleeve is tabbed and indexes into the bracket to fix it from spinning,  the axle is indexed with a flat on its outer shoulder to a tab on the bracket. This allows oil to seep into the axle and get into the needle bearings. This is far superior the the emgo or even the OEM Kz1000 it’s modeled after. My thinking was to gun drill a bolt to replace the axle. I just need ideas on how to fit the new bolt/axle so it will index on the hole drilled into the sleeve to retain the oiling technique. I’m also concerned the threads of the bolt/axle will either collapse or cut into the ID of the factory sleeve. 





 

I've been modifying/repairing my own idlers and tensioners for years now and i've seen no difference in lubrication between the earlier axles with oil holes and the later ones without. 
It's always the rubber centers that fail regardless and never the actual needle bearings.
The axles for the two idlers that sit under the head gasket have always been solid and survive just fine with splash lubrication.
The axles for the early top idlers and tensioner wheels with oil hole use tabbed axle with a 7mm central "sleeve" (non oil hole thicker plain axle with 6mm bore) which i replace with an undrilled m7 bolt and a shallow captive threaded boss (brazed on ) the other side which is loctited and staked for belt and braces. 

Thanks Zed. I just did some very rudimentary measurements. To the best I can figure the drilled inner axle is approximately 4 mm ID. The OD of it is 6.96. A drill for a M6 1.0 bolt is 4.92. The inner axle, if the pinned over end was ground off could be drilled and tapped and install an M6 1.0 with red Loctite. This would be a real easy fix for use backyard guys.

Zed1015, not sure if we should continue here or start another thread, mods? 

Have you had any issue with the repaired gears wear on the metal brackets? I had a local machinist make me up some gears, with your guidance. My concern is the full side face of the repaired gear in contact with the bracket. I noticed on the OEM gears there is a second metal sleeve the needle bearing presses into that is .88mm wider than the gear width. 13.23mm vs 14.11mm. This second sleeve would be the thrust surface for the gear and considerably reduced the contact surface between the fabricated aluminum hub and the bracket. I’m thinking of having my gears reworked to have the second sleeve pressed into the new fabricated aluminum. Thoughts?. See photo of inside of bracket. You can see the wear pattern of the second sleeve highlighted with red arrows 

 

I like the idea grinding off the staked side drill and tap for a short screw.It may also be done by using a rod that is tapped on the outside and fit nuts on both sides but that will look a little clumsy .

Just posting some more picks of what was in my camchain and roller christmas present from uk .