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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 07 Feb 2022 21:06 #861978

  • jekyllman
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Still new to this whole motorcycle thing so looking for a bit of experience to guide me through this. I've finally decided it's time to dig back into this machine ('80 KZ650) and replace the valve seals. Quite sure they're original. However, this is the one thing on this bike that I haven't really torn into, nor have I ever done anything like this before in my life. Pretty much everything I've done to this bike is the first time I've done anything like this so bear with me...

I've got the valve cover off, along with all the stuff prior to that. I was really hoping to change the valve seals WITHOUT removing the cylinder head. I got it all disassembled and 2 valve seals replaced but after a few nights of trying to muscle the stupid keepers back onto the valve I've finally given up and decided to take off the cylinder head and do it the right way. Well, that was 4 months ago and it's been sitting in my garage with a towel over the open engine as I can't find the motivation to do this for some reason. I lost the last couple months of riding season last fall and it really bugged me. I guess you can say that I'm becoming addicted. Plus, my other vehicle is an '05 Land Rover that gets 12mpg.

As far as I understand, from here I need to:

1. Remove the exhaust
2. Remove the carbs (done)
3. Remove the camshafts (basically done)
4. Remove 2 cylinder head bolts and 12 nuts (incl washers)
5. Remove buckets and shims (keep them in order)
6. Remove the cylinder head
7. Now use the clamp tool to compress valve springs, remove keepers, remove springs, remove old seals, replace with new seals and put everything back together.
8. Clean off head gasket and install new one 
9+. Put everything back together 

Questions:
1. Do I need to worry about the valve guides??
2. Stupid question so don't roast me but is it 100% necessary to replace the head gasket? If so, would you trust a $50 gasket off of ebay?
3. The manual keeps talking about O rings along with the head gasket. Where/what are the O rings?? Are we talking about nut washers here?
4. I just bought new copper washers for the exhaust, do I really need to buy more new ones?
5. What's the best way to get the camshaft chain up through the cylinder head without dropping it into the engine when reinstalling it?

You guys are awesome, thanks in advance for the help here
 
1980 KZ650F1 - 10k miles (see photo)
1981 KZ305 CSR - 10k miles (didn't have the heart to customize this one, will stay original)

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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 06:09 #861985

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1. Probably not with your low mileage but it doesn't hurt to check - as long as you're up for having them replaced if they do happen to be worn. 

2. Yes, head gaskets unfortunately are single-use. Some people will say that you should only use an OEM head gasket, I've been using a Wiseco head gasket with no issues (despite it being for an 810cc engine). Personally I'd be fine using a cheap one but I don't mind replacing it if it doesn't last long!

3. Part number 92055-1147. There are two ovoid rings underneath the engine head that go around two oil metering blocks; I suggest getting replacements and using a light coat of Yamabond or similar to make sure they keep the oil in. 

4. Many will say that you do, I will say that you probably don't. I've reused my exhaust gaskets 5-6 times and no leaks yet; just be ready to snug the clamps up a couple times after reinstalling. 

5. Best method I've seen is putting a wire/rod through the cam chain above the cylinder head, lifting the head, sliding another wire through the chain below the head, then removing the upper wire. You can then tie the chain to the upper frame tube, and when it's time to feed the chain back through the head, a long string should work fine. I feel like I worded this badly but you know what I mean. 

Footnote: some have said that you should replace the cylinder base gasket when removing the head; I would say that it's "best practice" and also "a can of worms" (annoying). So if you skip this step, be prepared for a tiny bit of oil seepage. 

Anyway, good luck! This project of yours is not hard at all and you can handle it no problem. 
1982 KZ750 Spectre - 6 speed swap, BS34s, 18" rear wheel

2001 ZX-6R
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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 07:51 #861989

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Footnote: some have said that you should replace the cylinder base gasket when removing the head; I would say that it's "best practice" and also "a can of worms" (annoying). So if you skip this step, be prepared for a tiny bit of oil seepage. 


 
Interesting. Is it possible to remove the jugs with the pistons/rings undisturbed? I've always just left the base gasket alone. 
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"

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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 08:05 #861990

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Maybe a misunderstanding - I just meant to say that some have suggested it's necessary to replace the cylinder base gasket beneath the jugs whenever you remove the head, as clamping force was removed, but in my limited experience (in which I didn't remove the jugs), I had ~.2ml oil seep out from the ends of the base gasket as a result. 
1982 KZ750 Spectre - 6 speed swap, BS34s, 18" rear wheel

2001 ZX-6R
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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 08:41 #861991

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You basically have the right steps to removing the head.  Here are a couple of pointers that will help with reassembly.

Buy some baggies.  When you remove a bucket and shim...put them together in a baggie with the cylinder number on it.  Put the valve, springs, keepers etc in the same baggie.  This will help put everything back in its original position when you reassemble.
To check your valve guides for wear you can put the valve part way into the guide and wiggle it back and forth, front and back and side to side.  If they feel tight you probably don't need to replace them.
I would not mess with an aftermarket head gasket.  OEM is the correct way to go in my opinion.
If the cylinders have not moved I wouldn't bother changing the base gasket.  It will be fine.
When you reassemble you should put the shims and buckets back in their original position.  This will help when it comes to checking valve clearance.
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 08:43 #861992

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Got it. I was just wondering since I have KZ1000 that needs bottom end work done but the pistons and rings are only just broken in. When I do this with a single it's fairly easy to raise the jug up and get at the circlips thereby leaving the piston in the cylinder. I'm not sure if this is possible with an in-line four. 
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"

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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 08:51 #861993

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Got it. I was just wondering since I have KZ1000 that needs bottom end work done but the pistons and rings are only just broken in. When I do this with a single it's fairly easy to raise the jug up and get at the circlips thereby leaving the piston in the cylinder. I'm not sure if this is possible with an in-line four. 
 
PM'd - didn't want to derail further. 
1982 KZ750 Spectre - 6 speed swap, BS34s, 18" rear wheel

2001 ZX-6R
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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 09:40 #861994

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Got it. I was just wondering since I have KZ1000 that needs bottom end work done but the pistons and rings are only just broken in. When I do this with a single it's fairly easy to raise the jug up and get at the circlips thereby leaving the piston in the cylinder. I'm not sure if this is possible with an in-line four. 

If you are doing bottom end work you will need to dismantle the entire engine including cases.  It sounds like you are concerned about putting the cylinders over the pistons when you reassemble.  I wouldn't worry about it.  Do your rebuild outside the frame where you can get at the pistons and cylinders freely and you should have few issues slipping the cylinders back on.
 
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.
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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 10:09 #861996

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Got it. I was just wondering since I have KZ1000 that needs bottom end work done but the pistons and rings are only just broken in. When I do this with a single it's fairly easy to raise the jug up and get at the circlips thereby leaving the piston in the cylinder. I'm not sure if this is possible with an in-line four. 


If you are doing bottom end work you will need to dismantle the entire engine including cases.  It sounds like you are concerned about putting the cylinders over the pistons when you reassemble.  I wouldn't worry about it.  Do your rebuild outside the frame where you can get at the pistons and cylinders freely and you should have few issues slipping the cylinders back on.
 
If you're just working on the bottom end you could pull the engine and then flip it upside down. Then you can split the cases and leave the crank, cylinders and head assembled.
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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 10:57 #861997

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The head is already off.  He could still do flip the engine but would have to be careful with the cylinders to avoid disturbing the base gasket.
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.
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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 12:00 #862000

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I’ve seen Johnny’s use short length of pipe (PVC) cut the height of the head, slide down over the head studs and a nut on the hold the block in place. 
1976 KZ 900 A4 kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/613548-1976-kz-900-a4
1976 KZ 900 B1 LTD
1978 KZ 1000 B2 LTD
1980 KZ 750 E1
Kowledge Speaks, But Wisdom Listens.
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Cylinder Head Removal - first time and could use some guidance 08 Feb 2022 12:29 #862001

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The head is already off.  He could still do flip the engine but would have to be careful with the cylinders to avoid disturbing the base gasket.
Thanks, missed that.

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