Fast By Gast

Old Man Rock wrote:

Here in Az, $80 bucks a hole... I know, rediculous.

OMR

:woohoo:
Why would you pay that much when you are right next door?
www.aperaceparts.com/machining.html

Unless I'm reading your site pricing in-correctly....
Once you consider shipping & tax.... Really not much difference.

Four Cylinder with Removable blocks:
LC150 Bore and hone with customer's pistons $189.00
Shipping one way $40/$80 round trip $40/80
Tax ~ $18

Total ~ $246/$286

Four Cylinder one-piece block and upper cases:
LC200P Bore and Hone with customer's pistons 340.00
Ship 40
Tax ~ 36

Total ~ $416/$456

My original cylinder had broken fins... The quote I received from APE... well, was a little on the high side so I decided to go with the OverStockParts package instead.

Included a clean, no broken fin cylinder already bored & honed, Wiseco piston kit with clips and pins and gaskets for not much more than having it accomplished local or elsewhere...

Sorry Jay for I'm probably just miss reading the APE pricings... Next time, who knows...

OMR

All I gotta say is that remember once you go apeshit you will have to deal with the consequences.
I had a blown head gasket and thought heck while it's apart let's put a 1075 kit, street port it and put some .410 cams in it. Ha No problem. I bought the bike with 7200 miles on it and the insides were like new.

In hindsight, big cams wear the timing chain out and the rollers get messed up and well it also gets hot QUICK at stop lights and hot summer city driving which means that the valves seals will bake and melt. Now she is apart again and I am going to put a heavy duty chain and liska rollers since I have to take it all apart now I will spend the extra cake for a nice shaved, welded and balance crank and back cut the gears.

In retrospect I was thinking maybe I should have just lightened the wheels, stretched it about 2-3 inches and put some real carbs on the bike and MAYBE some slightly larger carbs with decent headwork. 29s are nice but I think crs are a much better carb either 29 or 31 unless you do some real porting and then the 34 flatside miks.

You WILL have issues with putting a .410 cam and 1075 kit in it unless you ride without much traffic. Don't get me wrong I like the faster bike but you get used to the speed and always want more.

Leave the engine alone for now and buy a very nice oil cooler, make sure the steering bearings are replaced with the new style roller bearings. Put a decent swing arm on her and get some light wheels and you will feel like you built the engine without all of the hassle.
And then if you still feel the need for more ponies get it done but know that the engine will be something that you will need to be aware of. If you do the 1075 don't do it without doing all of the other stuff first. Sloppy bearings front and rear will make for a not so fun time when pushed to the limits and those heavy wheels on the bike will rob her of ponies.
My friends bike has 87k on the od and with his lightened wheels and I got on it and rode it and I will tell you it was fast. He was running 29s stock motor stretched 4 inches with the fabled basani pipe that has such a really nice not to it when opened up.
It's your money but if you build it tear it apart and do everything and do it just once or leave it stock and do everything else first and then build the engine. Chassis should come first when you think about safety.

Just my .02. Anyone can say what they like but this is my experience with my rebuild. I put a lot of miles on my bike each summer so maybe that has a lot to do with it but still if you are thinking like that then maybe you too may want to do everything else you can do before the ultimate rebuild. Just remember the head gaskets were manufactured with the drag racer in mind. One piece unlike the two piece with o ring original and when that gets hot the forma gasket garbage doesn't hold and at some point in time will begin leaking and once that happens the whole shit needs to be taken down again because the leak will start at the cam chain galley and work its way around. If you go bigger be prepared for that constant babying every 2-3 years of taking her down and redoing stuff. 7 pounds for every horspower. Increase the horses by lightening the rotating mass, even do a supercrank.

I appericate you post there, but i have done all that. New steeringbearing, new swingarm bearings, frame powdercoated. When thur all wiring, new seat, lighter spoke rims. This is not something that i have not thought about. The only thing that has not been done is the motor.

I currently ride 2002 zx7r, and now its time to finish my kz. Been working on this bike with parts from z1 american classix, old bike barns and redline out of il. Your .02 is greatly appericated.

Well there it is then...you already have a daily rider so it's time to go for it! I ride all summer and until the snow falls I am pretty much still riding so for me I need a bike that I wouldn't have to worry about and with my ride I love the power but am a bit annoyed that it's my only ride at the moment. Maybe don't put such a big cam in it unless you plan on taking it all apart and completely doing everything which sounds like you probably will.
I was going to buy a new zx14 actually signed the paperwork and would have taken it home except that it started raining like crazy for hours on end so they wouldn't let me take the bike and when I found my basement flooded I backed out of the deal and wish that I hadn't now seeing as how I scored a really good deal on the bike. Now that is a bike straight outta the box that there wouldn't be any real need for more speed although a pipe and stretch would be nice.

Zx-14... Well what fun would that be not being able or having to work on her everday/weekend? :huh: :dry:

One of the joys in owning a 30 year old beauty, she requires love and attention... Hmmm, just like the wife... :ohmy:

Sorry girls (female members and Steve)..... :laugh:

"although a pipe and stretch would be nice."

It all starts there

$120 if we supply the pistons, $189.00 if you supply pistons. It doesn't cost $40 to ship a block to AZ, and you would not pay tax. Still less that $320.00 ( and the bottoms would be chamfered for the rings :ohmy: )

Here is a question not totally unrelated to this post and Jay I think maybe you may be able to answer this question and for this post might help this guy who wants to get his bike done so that he may ride it well on the street.

I know all of these products you guys sell work incredibly well on the quarter mile at a time philosophy but on the street it becomes a different story altogether for those of us who unlike people who build the snot out of their bikes and ride them about an oil change a season.

I have two questions... no. 1 I have a question about the heavy duty studs that are about a millimeter thicker than the stock studs that most go to when they build the bike stronger. My question is this...when all of the studs are a millimeter thicker than the stock studs including the studs that the oil channels up through before it goes back down. Do any of you think that perhaps this design robs the top end of adequate lubrication? I mean seriously maybe not when bike is warmed up but at idle? there is not much space for the oil to go up and I think perhaps this possibly may be the cause of premature wear and heat damage to the top end? Now I absolutely have no idea but it seems an intelligent guess that the holes that the oil is transported to the top is lessened by the heavy duty studs it stands to reason that the bike might be a little starved for oil. Not sure just asking an intelligent question for those in the know who have the real experience with building bikes. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the two back outside studs stay the stock size? I'm not an engineer but it just seems to reason that the less space the oil has to travel the less oil there will be to travel up those galleys.

No. 2 is with the 1075 kit the two piece gasket and o ring is lost for a one piece gasket and permagasket. Wouldn't it stand to reason on a street bike to make a two piece gasket and retain the stock oil rubber to seal the oil galley from the timing chain? What would be the harm in cutting a gasket in to two pieces to match the stock gaskets and utilizing the rubber oring? Would that be a wrong thing to do? I can understand using a one piece gasket with drag racing your bike as every season you tear the bike down but I put a butload of miles on my bike every season and don't want to deal with tearing the top end down every season just to put a gasket on because it starts to leak and wondering if there is enough oil getting to the top end to properly lubricate with those heavy duty studs. Would it be wrong to have all the studs heavy duty save the two back outside studs where the oil travels up?

I am just asking these questions as it seems all the power bikes are usually geared toward the quarter mile and it seems no one thinks about the guy who likes to thrash his bike on the street and put some long distance miles which occassionaly includes getting caught in some heavy rain. Anyone??????

~ $40 to ship if you want insurance...

saxjonz wrote:

No 1 My question is this...when all of the studs are a millimeter thicker than the stock studs including the studs that the oil channels up through before it goes back down. Do any of you think that perhaps this design robs the top end of adequate lubrication?
Wouldn't it make more sense to have the two back outside studs stay the stock size? I'm not an engineer but it just seems to reason that the less space the oil has to travel the less oil there will be to travel up those galleys.

No. 2 is with the 1075 kit the two piece gasket and o ring is lost for a one piece gasket and permagasket. Wouldn't it stand to reason on a street bike to make a two piece gasket and retain the stock oil rubber to seal the oil galley from the timing chain? What would be the harm in cutting a gasket in to two pieces to match the stock gaskets and utilizing the rubber oring?


No 3. Would it be wrong to have all the studs heavy duty save the two back outside studs where the oil travels up?

No 1.I am not Jay so U can't take my answers to the bank, but this is my take.This is just my opinion and i am open to learning so please correct me if i am wrong.
In order to tell if u have enough oil flow , u would have to do some math,(Not my strong suite). u could calculate how much area there is between the cam bearings and cams, and compare that # to your area around the new studs.
I have not heard of an oil starvation issue hear so it should be fine. Just the same, i had the same doughts as u , so i drilled the rear oil stud hole in the cly bigger. Problem solved.

No2. I suppose that would work, but if u fill the o ring groove with silicone and leave it slightly proud of the surface, it seems to serve the same purpose.


N0 3.Very wrong.(IMO)the Ape studs are meant to prevent stretch. If use 2 of the old studs u will have the potential for stretch at the corners, which means leaks or at worst, warpage .


The kz head bolting design must have a few flaws, since the top ends are prone to leaks. there are some very innovative guys that have found dif ways of improving this.i have some good info on this topic, but have not gone as far as they have to stop the leaks. so far mine is holding . 5000 mile.if it leaks , i will go the next step.

There has never been an issue with oil supply to the top end with our larger studs in any of the engines we make them for.

The two piece gasket would be nice. I ahve asked Wiseco to change it, but they didn't. back in the day when we sold lots of KZ kits, we had two piece gaskets made up to 1200cc.

Now the market is not big enough for that.