Uh oh, losing power above 5K

Would at least measure valve clearances to eliminate too close gaps as cause for the problem. And hope they are already within specs so as to avoid the dreaded intimidating adjustment. :laugh:

Then -- if same problem presents -- replace the condenser that shorted against the backing pale, and re-test.

Question: Where is this heading?? :huh:
Answer: toward DynaS ignition. :laugh:

Btw, what sparkplugs (NGKB8Es, or maybe B7ES, whatever factory specifies?)

Good Luck!

i'd be all over the dyna s if the funds were a little higher! i wish i hadnt spent all this money on my coils and stuff which ended up not helping. maybe i can exchange them or something!

I'll try and take some measurments tomorrow and hope for the best!

do you think the condenser may have shorted out and become damaged after i had that wire touching the metal plate?

The FSM (Factory Service Manual) trouble shooting guide lists "damaged capacitor" as one possible reason for poor high speed performance.

The capacitor (aka condenser) prevents arcing across points when opening, which affords a stronger plug spark and less pitting. A faulty condenser may allow visible sparking at the points with engine running.

Perhaps could replace the new shorted condenser with one of the old hopefully-still-good condensers, and give that a try.

The hypothesis here is that the condenser was damaged in the hard acceleration episode when its wiring shorted against the backing plate.

Good Luck!

there is visible sparking across the points. The points pitted with the old condenser under hard acceleration, and the new condenser was the one that i may have shorted out so I don't think I can test with replacement.

The KZ1000 FSM shows a Capacitor Tester, powered by a battery (presumably the bike battery), with separate terminals to the capacitor wire and base.

And shows capacitor specifications as being:

0.24 +/- 0.02 uF, 1,000WVDC.

The u is not actually a u, but a similar looking Greek alphabet letter or symbol not on my keyboard. And the 0.24 is stamped into the bracket holding the dual capacitors together, which bracket is affixed by a screw to the points plate of a KX900.

Maybe the Kaw dealer or local automotive parts store might have a Capacitor Testor and check them for you.

Z1E offers a set containing points and condensers, but I didn't see a listing for only the dual condensers without the points. Perhaps another member has the condenser set available, and you could also check availability and price at your local Kaw dealership.

And yes it would be nice before purchasing the DynaS to isolate the points ignition system as being responsible for the engine performance problem.

Reminder -- If not already done, don't overlook measuring the valve clearances.

Good Luck!

freebyrd24 wrote:

there is visible sparking across the points. The points pitted with the old condenser under hard acceleration, and the new condenser was the one that i may have shorted out so I don't think I can test with replacement.

Maybe the old points pitted because of some other reason besides the old condensers being faulty (for instance, perhaps the points were dirty and/or improperly gapped which caused the pitting irrespective of performance of the condensers.)

There's at least a chance the old condensers are still okay because -- as I understand the history -- they didn't short out. So it won't hurt to give them a try and see what happens. (And won't cost anything).

Keep on keeping on!

thats true, that could be the issue.

I'll try to switch those out today. However the bike acted the same before and after the condenser so im not sure, but it wont hurt to try!

Do you think that could have killed the newer condenser by having it arced out tot he back plate?

I haven't gotten to checking clearances or even heading out there yet, i've got a ton going on that isn't working

So here's another hypothesis believed consistent with the history and onset of the problem.

The old points failed during the hard acceleration episode for reasons unrelated to the condensers, which points failure alone caused immediate onset of the problem.

Such points failure could have been due to being dirty or improperly gapped (i.e., too closely gapped.). Perhaps the fiber heel of the points had worn down, thereby reducing the gap and causing arcing regardless of perfect unshorted condenser performance. As known, this wearing away of the fiber heel occurs much faster when the little felt pad is not kept moist with oil to lubricate the cam spinning underneath the heel. Sometimes the little felt pad goes missing, but it's supposed to be there and kept slightly lubricated as part of routine points maintenance.

When the new points and new condensers were installed, an error in fitment or tightening of the small delicate parts involved (insulators, washers, etc.) allowed the connection to short against the bracket. Which short damaged the new condensers. Whereby with the new condensers no longer operated to prevent arcing across the new points. Whereby the new points arced, pitted and failed (regardless of being properly gapped).

Just a theory. And still hoping for a simple answer with an inexpensive fix.

freebyrd24 wrote:

... bike acted the same before and after the condenser so im not sure, but it wont hurt to try!

Do you think that could have killed the newer condenser by having it arced out to the back plate?

I haven't gotten to checking clearances or even heading out there yet, i've got a ton going on that isn't working

If reading correctly,

bike acted the same before and after the condenser-- the new condenser likely never worked anyhow because of being shorted against the backing plate when installed. :ohmy:

killed the newer condenser by having it arced out to the back plate -- Yep. DOA.

haven't gotten to checking clearances -- should do before much more riding, because burnt valves can get really expensive. And besides, merely checking the gaps is a rather pleasant and easy exercise.

I'm happy to report that all valve clearances are in excellent shape! They ranged from .08mm to .13mm, well within spec from what my manual says.

And since the problem happened abruptly, i guess I should probably order a dyna s

freebyrd24 wrote:

I'm happy to report that all valve clearances are in excellent shape! They ranged from .08mm to .13mm, well within spec from what my manual says.

And since the problem happened abruptly, i guess I should probably order a dyna s

Glad to hear the valve clearances are okay. (And hoping there's not a broken or weakened valve spring involved).

Some questions to help clarify future communications.

What color wire (green or black) attaches to the right-hand-side set of points and connects to whichever coil fires inside plugs #2/3?

When coils are mounted on the bike, one coil is located closer to plugs #1/2 (the left-hand coil) and the other coil is located closer to plugs #3/4 (the right-hand coil). Which of the coils (left or right) fires inside plugs #2/3?

More questions:

Are NGKB8ES sparkplugs installed, and if not, what plugs are installed?

Are new Dyna plug wires being used with the new Dyna coils?

Suggestion, if not already done -- Use ohmmeter to verify continuity of the wire connecting the right-hand-side points to whichever coil fires inside plugs #2/3. Hold one meter probe against the wire end at base of right-hand-side points spring; hold the other meter probe against end of the wire which attaches to the coil primary terminal.

Let's say the wire itself checks out okay with good continuity from end to end.

Next, check whether closed points are allowing coil primary terminal to reach ground. Hold one meter probe against same coil primary terminal, and hold the other meter probe to the points backing plate (or any other ground on engine or frame). Should be full continuity.

Next, check whether open points are preventing coil primary terminal from reaching ground. Hold one meter probe against same coil primary terminal, and hold the other meter probe to the point that moves (not the fixed point) on the right-hand side. When the points are closed, there should be full continuity. When the points are open (may just hold them open or put a piece of cardboard between them), there should be no continuity.

In summary: (1) assure that closed points allow the coil primary to reach ground; and (2) assure that open points prevent that same coil primary from reaching ground.

May repeat this exercise for the wiring between left-hand-side points and whichever coil fires outside plugs #1/4. But as I recall, cylinders #1/4 are not an issue as they are firing okay.

Regarding the new DynaS electronic ignition, I believe it arrives delivered with the three wires needed (one from right module to coil firing #2/3; another from left module to coil firing #1/4; and the third wire for tapping somewhere into battery voltage when ignition is in ON position). So the existing wiring from points to coils (the trigger/signal wires) will be replaced with the new DynaS wiring.

Sorry I'm still so suspicious of performance by the right-hand-side points and wiring from there to the coil.

I fought with a poor old worn out ignition system for several years. DynaS cured all the points problems, but the oem coils just kept getting weaker as the oem plug wires got harder and leaked more and more, and the oem plug caps began giving widely varying ohm readings. Plugs stayed sooty and fouled. The high voltage plug wire leakage got so bad it would "buzz" my hand when touching the petcock to switch on reserve.

It was joyous day when the Dyna coils and wires were added to the DynaS ignition -- and only regret was not having done it long before. Certainly one of my better investments. And did it for both bikes. Never any ignition problems since. And freedom from any ignition maintenance or timing (except keeping the advancer lubed). Hoping you'll be just as well-pleased.

Good Luck! And thanks for the continuing progress reports.

thank you for the detailed response! all 4 cylinders are firing now, it was just the condenser being grounded out that did not allow the 2+3 side to fire. All for are now firing though

The problem is back to the beginning where I'm losing power at/above 5K rpms. My grounding the condenser out just increased the problems but now we're back to square one with power loss above 5k