Uh oh, losing power above 5K

fuses all checked out okay. in looking at them i remembered that i had replaced them all with newer fuses. they all loook great and tested good

i installed the new coils and wires and still have the same damn problem. plugs 2 and 3 will not fire. point gap is perfect and identical to the 1+4 points gap. wiring is tight and all grounds are tight.

i tested voltage again by turing the key on and reading the voltage at the poles. on the 1+4 coil, i got a reading of 9.27 volts on each pole. On the 2+3 coil, i got a reading of 9.27 on one, and .4 on the other pole. These are the same readings i recieved before with the other coils.

i don't know where to turn next. it has to be some kind of electrical problem with the way 2 and 3 both are having the problem together

oh my god

i feel like an idiot

I had the points cover open and decided to check it the points were producing spark. One wasnt and one was. I look over at the one that wasnt and saw the two wires the connect to the point. One wire that goes up to the coil, and the other that goes to the condenser

These two connect tot he point with two flat plates. (those who've seen it or done points know what im talking about). One of those metal tabs that was connected to the point was touching the metal backing plate!

I loosened up the connection, moved it off of the backing plate, tightened it up and it fired on all four cylinders. I am a moron

Thank you for all your help everyone

after going out for a test ride i only feel half as dumb

I still have no power over about 4.5-5 thousand RPMS. Its just running poorly above that

Certainly one of the severable foibles in a points ignition are the delicate little connections whereby the condenser wires and signal wires attach to the points springs. It may have vibrated loose during the hard acceleration run, allowing contact with the backing plate, which possibly ruined the condensor. A DynaS will of course resolve any issues which might yet remain in the points ignition. (It's easy for me to throw your money at the problem. :lol: ) Meanwhile, don't forget to CLEAN and GAP both sets of points. Clean and gap first, then re-check the timing. It's also remotely possible that the points spring could be weak.

The 9.27 volts to coils is too low. Either the battery is low or there's a deficiency in the wiring and/or connections between the battery positive terminal and coil. Battery condition should be unquestionably good (fully charged and able to hold the charge). Further testing with a low battery or with too low voltage getting to the coils is fruitless. Could charge the battery and then do a specific gravity test or just take it somewhere (automotive parts store) and have it load-tested. Maybe it's time for a new battery, but am doubtful that the existing battery was harmed by the hard acceleration episode. If the battery is good, remember about testing with addition of a temporary secondary wire direct from battery positive to the coils (to assure full battery voltage to coils).

Meanwhile --- Have valve clearances been checked? If so, are they up to specs? Remember, the compression test alone is not enough, as it may show just fine before the engine attains normal operating temperature. Marginally too tight valves may seat during compression testing, but fail to seat at operating temperature (that's the reason for the gap).

It's also conceiveable that a valve spring was broken or weakened during the hard acceleration episode. A leak-down test could also be helpful toward better pin-pointing a reason for less than perfect compression, as it should indicate any seating weakness in a particular valve.

In brief, would (1) assure good battery with (2) full voltage to coils, and (3) assure valve clearances to specs, and (4) clean and gap points, (5) re-check ignition timing, then re-test performance. And if problem continues, (6) replace points with DynaS ignition.

Keep the faith!

Addendum -- Z1E Leak-Down Tester

Thanks for all the help Patton, you're helping me keep the faith

I'll try running a wire from the battery to the coil and check voltage to make sure thats not the issue. The battery is in excellent shape and fully charged, but always a good idea to check.

i haven't checked the valve clearances at all. It's honestly a pretty intimidating task to me based on my readings of it. How do you perform the leak down test? I've seen it mentioned a few times on here, but am not sure how

Measuring the valve clearances is relatively simple and should not be intimidating. Just remove the valve cover and use a feeler gauge between lowest part of the cam lobe and the bucket. Adjusting the clearance by changing an under-bucket shim is the intimidating and far more difficult procedure because it involves removing and replacing the camshafts and all the delicate procedures which that entails. In event a too tight gap is found so that adjustment is necessary, I would suggest getting some good on-site assistance if available, or better yet having it done by someone well-experienced in doing this particular procedure. As a lot can quickly and easily go wrong, such as stripped cam bolts, bent valves, etc. The good news is once adjusted, the gaps usually remain okay for a long time. Hopefully, the existing gaps will check out within specs (the easy part), and thereby remove suspicion from valve clearances as a possible cause or partial cause of the problem.

The leak-down test requires a special tool which is an apparatus whereby air pressure is introduced into the compression chamber while both valves are seated (closed). Then listening to where the air escapes. If heard coming out the exhaust, the exhaust valve is likely leaking. If heard coming out the carb, the intake valve is likely leaking. If heard coming out the crankcase vent, compression is slipping past the piston and rings. For those interested, I believe Z1E carries the leak-down tester. Many of us amateurs don't have a leak-down tester in the toolbox.

Where using the compression test alone shows poor compression, the loss of compression may be from (1) either or both valves failing to fully seat for whatever reason (often cured by adjusting clearance) or (2) from getting past the piston and rings. Where valves are seating okay, adding some oil inside the combustion chamber often raises the compression figure by temporarily preventing compression from getting past the piston and rings. Where adding oil doesn't substantially increase compression, the piston and rings are likely okay. Happily, many low compression issues are resolved by adjusting too tight valve clearances to specs. The over-bucket style shims (Z1, KZ900/1000, large fours) are easier to adjust because cam removal is not required. My understanding is that under-bucket style allows higher rpm's without spitting out a shim.

Will maybe lose, but right now am betting my nickel on the fix being full good battery voltage to the coils plus clean/gapped points and verified timing. And willing to go double-or-nothing with the DynaS ignition. :lol:

Good Luck!

I know you are getting a lot of advice, but this is just a quick thought. Your coil voltages of 9VDC are miserably low. Your coils will not fire very hot.

Here is what I would do. First, I would check the reg/rec and general charging of the bike. Take off the seat or lift it up. Start the bike. Put your multimeter probes on the battery poles... red (pos) to the positive battery terminal and black (neg) to the negative battery terminal. At idle, you should see about 12.5VDC or perhaps just a shade lower. Rev engine to 4K rpm. You should see 14.5 VDC. If you see significantly more or perhaps less, you have a problem in the charging system. If you have less, this is REALLY contributing to your lack of power.

If you have 9VDC available with the engine not running, you are getting 3/4 of the power you should because of the path that the power takes to get to the coils... switches, connectors, wires, etc. Read my coil repowering article on our website under wg's Tech Stuff Index.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your coils and the problem with the points only masked the underlying problem. If the quick electrical stuff I recommended doesn't fix the problem, then the full tune up stuff that has been suggested is in order; you should do it anyway but your coil voltages are so low, you can't get good spark. Period.

I've thought about the repowering mod. I'll test the voltages and chargning system today. Before I tear in and check clearances and such. Lack of voltage would cause upper RPM problems as it needs more power correct?

freebyrd24 wrote:

... Lack of voltage would cause upper RPM problems as it needs more power correct?

Yes. But remains a mystery to me why the hard acceleration episode seems to have so instantly and directly caused the problem. Betcha you're gonna really be pissed if find a crusty, loose or ill-fitting connector somewhere between the positive battery terminal and the coils.

Remember to clean and gap the points and then re-check timing. If the condensor was damaged by shorting against the backing plate, I believe (but am not positive) the points will still perform okay, but be subject to more arcing and burning because of the bad condensor.

Am still thinking the hard acceleration episode caused something to vibrate loose in the ignition, whether in the points connections or other wiring.

Good Luck!

some quick electrical test results...

running the bike at 4K RPMs, voltage maxed out and maintained a 14.76 volts. when back at idle, voltage maintained a constant 11.8 volts. While the bike was running at idle, i measured the voltage at the coils, the coils had a voltage of about 10.01 volts.

is this acceptable or is this number too small?

freebyrd24 wrote:

some quick electrical test results...

running the bike at 4K RPMs, voltage maxed out and maintained a 14.76 volts. when back at idle, voltage maintained a constant 11.8 volts. While the bike was running at idle, i measured the voltage at the coils, the coils had a voltage of about 10.01 volts.

is this acceptable or is this number too small?

What is voltage at the coils at 4K RPMs?

voltage at the coil was about 13.8 volts at 4K. I assume with that reading that I'm going to have to open her up and check valve clearances