My 650 CSR project

I'm glad that I haven't invested any money in this beast except for spark plugs and an order made yesterday that I should be able to return, because I think this project is coming to a screeching halt. That's OK, I learned a lot and have an extra set of carbs and learned a bit about these 650s now. I went to loosen the muffler and found a crack/split in the frame. Now I guess I can go ahead and safely pull the carbs and get them ready for the B1 that I am suddenly a lot more motivated to get. 

82KZ305Belt wrote:

I'm glad that I haven't invested any money in this beast except for spark plugs and an order made yesterday that I should be able to return, because I think this project is coming to a screeching halt. That's OK, I learned a lot and have an extra set of carbs and learned a bit about these 650s now. I went to loosen the muffler and found a crack/split in the frame. Now I guess I can go ahead and safely pull the carbs and get them ready for the B1 that I am suddenly a lot more motivated to get. 

Frames can be welded.  How bad is it?  

Regarding low compression, chances are high that once you start riding the bike that the compression will increase.  Inactivity is the worst thing for these bikes.

Nessism wrote:

82KZ305Belt wrote:

I'm glad that I haven't invested any money in this beast except for spark plugs and an order made yesterday that I should be able to return, because I think this project is coming to a screeching halt. That's OK, I learned a lot and have an extra set of carbs and learned a bit about these 650s now. I went to loosen the muffler and found a crack/split in the frame. Now I guess I can go ahead and safely pull the carbs and get them ready for the B1 that I am suddenly a lot more motivated to get. 

Frames can be welded.  How bad is it?  

Regarding low compression, chances are high that once you start riding the bike that the compression will increase.  Inactivity is the worst thing for these bikes.
 

 I took your earlier comments about compression to heart and am not worrying about that especially since they are all pretty much the same now. I just couldn't resist checking it again when it was warm. Glad I did because seeing them all the same was reassuring.

I'm sure the frame can be fixed (well not entirely sure because there could be other problems I missed), but I'm not sure where. I know I can't fix it. I called around to all the local bike shops and nobody could recommend anyone for the job. I don't know how important it is to to have motorcycle welding experience and I'm not someone who would trust it to just anyone. I will also need to go over it with a fine-toothed comb now to make sure there isn't more damage.  It may not be the end but its a speedbump. 

Its just below and back of the oil sight glass







 
 

Looks like an easy fix.  Maybe water got into the frame tube, and froze, splitting the frame.

You don't need a "motorcycle" frame guy.  Any decent welder can stitch that back up.  It's not a high stress area of the frame, either.

It does look like what happens to my pipes when when they freeze, which was confusing. Didn't know water could get inside the frame.  Doesn't that present concerns about rusting from the inside out? 

82KZ305Belt wrote:

It does look like what happens to my pipes when when they freeze, which was confusing. Didn't know water could get inside the frame.  Doesn't that present concerns about rusting from the inside out? 

Who the heck knows what some previous owners do with their bikes.  Maybe parked the thing under a down spout.  As long as there is no remnant water in the frame, weld and go.  If the water sat inside the frame long enough to compromise structure, I think there would be more indication.

Here's a better picture of it. Definitely must have been a freeze-burst because the frame is expanded for about 2.5 inches of its length, including the open rip. What kind of welding methods would/should be used to repair something like this? That whole 2.5 inches must be weakened. I want to be able to ask the right questions when I talk to someone.
 

 

As long as the thickness of the metal hasn't been compromised (rotted from within) any competent welder should be able to "Mig" or "Tig" that split without issue. You might want to measure the distance from the front engine mounting bolt to the swingarm pivot on both sides, worth a quick check as you don't want to pour money into it if when finished "it only turns right"  (that "ballooning" looks a little strange and could be the result of frontal impact !!) As far as water in the frame goes, that's normal, most frames aren't completely sealed.

Wookie for the win! I'd import you for my next project-buying adventure but I couldn't afford the tariff.

I've been very wary of this bike for a number of reasons, not the least of which is knowing that very foolish young men have been its most recent owners. The weird handlebars, the broken fins, the mismatched pitch on drivetrain, loose fork bolts, no caliper...all of it added up to make me wary of what I might discover later on. This weekend I put the front fender back on only to find that it was not bent, but it was wonky and didn't look right. So I'm not at all surprised and only moderately disappointed to learn that this bike probably was in a crash. But its been a high value, low cost learning experience which is what I bought it for.

I didn't even measure the pivot to engine bolt yet (but I will). I looked at how much the front wheel turns and its obvious that something is bent. Probably the fork(s), but I will have to do more checking later.  I'm not going to invest too much in this one for now (unless I change my mind, lol), but maybe it will ride again someday. I will keep trying to track down the issue but it might be wise to turn most of my energy to getting that other bike

 

I'm still in "knee-jerk reaction mode" so I may retract this all once I have had some time to look it over lol

When the wheel is straight ahead, the handlebars are turned somewhat left. In this position there is only 1 finger space between the stopper on the back of the steering stem  and the post/stopper below the headset, and twice that amount on the right side. So the front wheel will only turn partway to the left before the stop engages.  The whole fork-wheel assembly appears twisted rather than bent, I can't see a definite bend in any specific component but the right fork may be bent.  This linked post states the only reason this can happen is if the fork stanchion is bent. I've seen other posts referring to bent triples with similar outcomes kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/618992-front-end-alignment#885462

I don't see a problem with replacing forks and triple Ts if needed, but it won't happen right away.  Short term project becomes long-term project.

But I need to make 100% sure the frame isn't badly bent, because there is nobody who straightens frames around here.  I noticed what looks like some deformation on the opposite side from the crack, a barely measurable swelling (nothing like the other side) and a possible bend or bulge outward. I need to come up with a better way to measure things because stuff like engine covers get in the way of accurate measuring. Think I may make something out of wood or make a large caliper out of a large wood clamp.  

Edit: made a giant shallow u-shaped measuring board out of plywood and measured the frame, swing arm pivot to multiple points on the engine mounts, front of frame, etc. Everything is equal on both sides so far, but can't be too careful. Will double and triple check it but looking good.
 

The handlebars being out of line with the wheel can simply be the forks have twisted in the trees (slacken the trees, hold the wheel between your knees and jerk the bars to pull them into line then tighten the trees) You could buy a cheap angle gauge from Amazon or the like and check the "head angle" on the portion of the fork between the trees with the wheel straight ahead (however it does sound like it's had a "smack on the nose" !!)