What Oil Do You Run?

Rockranch wrote: I have run 20/50 motor oil in all my KZ900's and 1000's for 40 years, (speed bikes, cruisin' bikes, and Sunday-go-for-a-spin bikes) and have yet to harm an engine internally. I am a 20/50 user, but that's just me. You'll probably get a gazillion differing opinions on this topic. ................................Mike

Vroom-vroom!!!

A million differing opinions , all will swear theirs is the right answer, and probably there is some measure of truth in that for them. soooo...I do what Maw Kaw says, 10w40 Motorcycle Oil.
If a person varies from that you must be very carefull that the oil you use doesnt have "Friction Modifiers" fancy words for your clutch is toast if you use them. Also, when Ma Kaw designed these engines there was no Synthetic, so my thought process is UNLESS you totally rebuild an engine and replace all the gaskets ,Seals and O-rings with pieces that are compatible with Synthetic dont.
As the old saying goes.....simple is better, thats me! Old and Simple!
Ed

Rockranch wrote: I have run 20/50 motor oil in all my KZ900's and 1000's for 40 years, (speed bikes, cruisin' bikes, and Sunday-go-for-a-spin bikes) and have yet to harm an engine internally. I am a 20/50 user, but that's just me. You'll probably get a gazillion differing opinions on this topic. ................................Mike

Vroom-vroom!!!

Yep, a gazillion differing opinions...and pretty much all are right in their own ways. The key is regular upkeep no matter what you choose. Pretty much the only way to really harm a bike engine is to just be plainly stupid in your regular maintenance. I rest my case. ....................Mike

Vroom-vroom!!!

I also use Castrol Grand Prix four stroke 10W40 motorcycle oil--no troubles,

Then the question is how many miles can you go before you have to add a quart of oil?
Steve

ed spangler wrote:

Rockranch wrote: I have run 20/50 motor oil in all my KZ900's and 1000's for 40 years, (speed bikes, cruisin' bikes, and Sunday-go-for-a-spin bikes) and have yet to harm an engine internally. I am a 20/50 user, but that's just me. You'll probably get a gazillion differing opinions on this topic. ................................Mike

Vroom-vroom!!!

A million differing opinions , all will swear theirs is the right answer, and probably there is some measure of truth in that for them. soooo...I do what Maw Kaw says, 10w40 Motorcycle Oil.
If a person varies from that you must be very carefull that the oil you use doesnt have "Friction Modifiers" fancy words for your clutch is toast if you use them. Also, when Ma Kaw designed these engines there was no Synthetic, so my thought process is UNLESS you totally rebuild an engine and replace all the gaskets ,Seals and O-rings with pieces that are compatible with Synthetic dont.
As the old saying goes.....simple is better, thats me! Old and Simple!
Ed

I think it's important to use the correct type of oil with the correct zinc levels and no friction modifiers and other additives that are detrimental to a wet clutch. That is pretty much motorcycle specific oils and and diesel engine oils, there are exceptions, but less likely among the products on the shelf in a typical store. After that the choice, is really yours as to which one you go with. It's probably fine to use a 20/50 in hot summer conditions and it may even be beneficial to do so in an air cooled engine, but as has been said regular changes and ensuring the engine oil is always at the correct level is the most important.

I understand from a few things I've read that in an engine that shares it's oil with the transmission, the gearbox actually shears and breaks down the oil far more rapidly than the engine ever would and this is another reason to use the appropriate oils for the application. Again diesel oils are good because they are designed to endure a tougher environment and engines with the oil operated injectors also are very hard on the oil shearing it to a lower viscosity level quite rapidly from a 40 weight starting point.

redhawk4 wrote: I understand from a few things I've read that in an engine that shares it's oil with the transmission, the gearbox actually shears and breaks down the oil far more rapidly than the engine ever would and this is another reason to use the appropriate oils for the application. Again diesel oils are good because they are designed to endure a tougher environment and engines with the oil operated injectors also are very hard on the oil shearing it to a lower viscosity level quite rapidly from a 40 weight starting point.

Yep, it is the VI's (viscosity increasers) that get the shearing effect from the gearbox. VI's are not oil, they are additives. A 10-40 oil is made by taking 10W oil and adding enough VI's until the viscosity is the same as a 40W would have at 100C temp. As the VI's break down, the 10-40 goes to 10-30...... then 10-20.... then just 10W. While companies talk about how great syn oil is.... the additive package is not synthetic and some are better than others.

Another point: the base oil (mineral or syn) almost never breaks down but the additives fall apart or get used up quite often and can really cause damage..... hence the wisdom of changing before service limit.

redhawk4 wrote: oil operated injectors t.

What are you talking about? Oil operated injectors???????????

car5car wrote:

redhawk4 wrote: oil operated injectors t.

What are you talking about? Oil operated injectors???????????

HEUI injectors use a high pressure oil feed from a High Pressure Oil Pump to operate the fuel injector with electronics to control the amount of fuel injected and timing etc. Designed by Caterpillar, they are commonly used on International truck engines and so are in many of the Ford Power Stroke pickup motors made by International. At idle the High Pressure Oil Pump provides a pressure of about 580 psi but at higher engine speeds the pressure is as high as 3,000 psi or higher. They are now an outdated technology, but were state of the art in the early 90's when direct injection first came into production as opposed to the old style indirect injection operating from a mechanical fuel pump.

Look it up, if you still think I'm talking crap.

bountyhunter wrote:

redhawk4 wrote: I understand from a few things I've read that in an engine that shares it's oil with the transmission, the gearbox actually shears and breaks down the oil far more rapidly than the engine ever would and this is another reason to use the appropriate oils for the application. Again diesel oils are good because they are designed to endure a tougher environment and engines with the oil operated injectors also are very hard on the oil shearing it to a lower viscosity level quite rapidly from a 40 weight starting point.

Yep, it is the VI's (viscosity increasers) that get the shearing effect from the gearbox. VI's are not oil, they are additives. A 10-40 oil is made by taking 10W oil and adding enough VI's until the viscosity is the same as a 40W would have at 100C temp. As the VI's break down, the 10-40 goes to 10-30...... then 10-20.... then just 10W. While companies talk about how great syn oil is.... the additive package is not synthetic and some are better than others.

Another point: the base oil (mineral or syn) almost never breaks down but the additives fall apart or get used up quite often and can really cause damage..... hence the wisdom of changing before service limit.

That is one advantage to using a straight weight oil because a straight 40w will stay at that weight for much longer, as you say, because it's the VI's that break down, but then a Mutigrade has so many other benefits, for cold starts etc. That is one reason not to overly extend oil change intervals, where even though the oil may look relatively clean, it may not be performing as it should any longer. As we get more extremes in multigrades like 5/40 then this break down can become more significant, because they are starting out with a 5w and beefing it up.

When I bought my daughter 04 Malibu I put in Castrol GTX 20/50. I swore by that oil. She took it in for a recall and they put in 5/30 shelf brand oil. A month later there was no oil in it. I bought new Castrol and a filter, put it in. She told be "they" said it's the wrong oil for that car. I told her "they" are happy to sell her oil that will evaporate so she will buy a new car when this one burns out. It has over 150,000 miles on it so thin oil won't he enough for it. I told her about my experience with the new Castrol and how it went away too fast. I put in Rotilla and haven't had to add oil in over 500 miles. She barked at me if I wanted to use different oil she would give me the car and I could do what I want with it. " Fine, when your car dies, I don't want to hear about it." :whistle:
Steve

redhawk4 wrote:

bountyhunter wrote:

redhawk4 wrote: I understand from a few things I've read that in an engine that shares it's oil with the transmission, the gearbox actually shears and breaks down the oil far more rapidly than the engine ever would and this is another reason to use the appropriate oils for the application. Again diesel oils are good because they are designed to endure a tougher environment and engines with the oil operated injectors also are very hard on the oil shearing it to a lower viscosity level quite rapidly from a 40 weight starting point.

Yep, it is the VI's (viscosity increasers) that get the shearing effect from the gearbox. VI's are not oil, they are additives. A 10-40 oil is made by taking 10W oil and adding enough VI's until the viscosity is the same as a 40W would have at 100C temp. As the VI's break down, the 10-40 goes to 10-30...... then 10-20.... then just 10W. While companies talk about how great syn oil is.... the additive package is not synthetic and some are better than others.

Another point: the base oil (mineral or syn) almost never breaks down but the additives fall apart or get used up quite often and can really cause damage..... hence the wisdom of changing before service limit.

That is one advantage to using a straight weight oil because a straight 40w will stay at that weight for much longer, as you say, because it's the VI's that break down, but then a Mutigrade has so many other benefits, for cold starts etc. That is one reason not to overly extend oil change intervals, where even though the oil may look relatively clean, it may not be performing as it should any longer. As we get more extremes in multigrades like 5/40 then this break down can become more significant, because they are starting out with a 5w and beefing it up.

Straight weight oils come in various viscosity levels, the most popular of which are 30, 40, 50. Note: these weights are not 30W, 40W, 50W, which do not exist. The W indicates a Winter viscosity rating, and the only straight weight W rated oils are 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, 25W.

I had a HEUI Caterpillar Engine. Man... I got tired of changing injectors. When the warranty was over, a CAT technician told me: "stop using CAT oil. They buy it bulk to some low quality manufacturer and just stick the CAT label, go heavy duty diesel synthetic oil from any good company and you will never have another HEUI injector failure again".
I trusted that guy so much I gave it a try. Guess what? I sold the truck with over 200k miles and no more failing HEUI injectors. :woohoo:

redhawk4 wrote:

car5car wrote:

redhawk4 wrote: oil operated injectors t.

What are you talking about? Oil operated injectors???????????

HEUI injectors use a high pressure oil feed from a High Pressure Oil Pump to operate the fuel injector with electronics to control the amount of fuel injected and timing etc. Designed by Caterpillar, they are commonly used on International truck engines and so are in many of the Ford Power Stroke pickup motors made by International. At idle the High Pressure Oil Pump provides a pressure of about 580 psi but at higher engine speeds the pressure is as high as 3,000 psi or higher. They are now an outdated technology, but were state of the art in the early 90's when direct injection first came into production as opposed to the old style indirect injection operating from a mechanical fuel pump.

Look it up, if you still think I'm talking crap.